If you're going to cite a bull♥♥♥♥ number you're going to have to provide something more substantial than that bull♥♥♥♥ number.

Also, I'm not really sure you get this-

you are not a special case because you think your mod is better than others. Indeed, if you were, then we'd suddenly be defining mods as releasable based on an arbitrary standard of "quality" and nothing more. This was tried once before, with the Mod Review panel. It failed miserably and was shunned by the entire community.

The entire point of a legal system is to establish precedent, and in this case we don't really have any. The only major issue this forum has had with mod ownership is with Numgun, but the situation still applies. A mod creator, the original one, denied republication. Whether modified or not, whether "fun" or not, does not matter. This is a very simple case: you, without permission, but fully within your right as an end user, decided to modify another user's modification of the game. Nothing up to this point is reprehensible or even uncommon in any way. However, you now want to jump from "end user" to "mod creator" without the all important step of making a mod. You said in your first post that:


Your key words here: IMPROVE. ALTER.

Making new weapons for a preexisting mod does not mean that you have an original mod. Changing the sprites on a mod without significantly altering base content has already been well established as a negative (see: resprites). While you claim to have significantly altered the code, proving that would be complex and avoids the significant issue entirely: You used another author's base code, without permission, to create a new mod. You sought permission to release this new mod as a standalone file, and were denied. The intellectual property is not yours, and you have no rights to it.

You have been told by two respected members of the community and an appointed representative of the forum that you cannot publicly release your mod, and you are now attempting to resort to a childish imitation of protest action. I hate to break it to you, but no one on this forum even knew this mod existed until today, and they sure as hell won't care if it stops existing tomorrow.

Sounds like a /thread to me.

Well this is still a place for me to discuss my progress on it.

Oh. Well, have fun with that.

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I highly doubt LFOW sought Zalo's permission when he copied his code. Although even if he did ask and Zalo said yes, or Zalo said anyone can use his code, I bet Zalo wasn't such a nerd about it, trying to protect is "legacy". The fact is that my version plays completely differently. Maybe it isn't unique enough to be released as is, but my point is that LFOW is being a ♥♥♥♥ about it.

Regardless, yes, I suppose I AM protesting. I'll continue to update this thread with my progress on the mod.

And I want an answer to whether or not LFOW copied my crush fist idea, or if we both thought of it separately. If we DID both just happen to think of it on our own and you have proof he thought of it before I did, then I can prove that I did not get the idea from him. I have PMs dating back to Thursday Jun 25, 2009. PMs of me talking with mail2345 about doing the lua for it.

He brought it up with me on IRC back when we were in heavy collaboration on Xextredge. I don't have exact dates because we typically talked on and off for a few hours every day for a period of about a month. Best guess, based on PMs, would be some time in mid to late July, but, again, the possibility remains of coincidental thought.

I'm not saying I don't believe that you originally thought the idea up, but in our conversations about it, LFoW distinctly mentioned it as his idea. Whether he was being headstrong or truthful is not within my knowledge.

LFoW certainly has his faults, I will be the first person to acknowledge them. Again, this is not the issue. Just because I don't like Numgun doesn't mean that I'm allowed to disregard his rights to his intellectual property and release his various mods.

EDIT: Also, considering that you're calling LFoW a ♥♥♥♥, it's rather ironic that you've twice now called him a "nerd" for doing nothing more than refusing to allow the release of one derivation of one of his mods.

Well it's selfish. He's withholding a variant of his mod that I know the CC community would enjoy very much. He's a nerd because he's got some weird concept of a mod being his legacy, his holy virgin that cannot be touched by the keyboard of a dirty sinner like me.

Anyways, I'm not here to troll LFOW, I'm here to try and publish my mod. So let's just drop it then, eh?

All this topic is now is a place for me to post updates on my mod, and to get LFOW to allow me to post my version.

Keep it to progress. If you keep going on about how it's unfair, and insulting LFoW in his absence, I'm going to lock this. Talk with LFoW directly if you want to release, none of us can override his wishes.

The ruling is final*, permission or no public post. Whining further will only make me want to warn and/or tempban you.

*Unless someone above me overrides me, but I kinda doubt that.

Yes yes I know.

Thread is going to be filled with more stuff like this:
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He literally got uppercutted

I'm afraid that besides the crushfist, nothing in that list is in any way special or particularly interesting. You'd be better off simply releasing the fist script and being done with it.

A few more gifs, then bed
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When I read you made a laser and the drone gun I thought you used the sprites LFOW made. I bet those are still around somewhere.
Anyway this looks like really fun addition to the behemoth if one would want to go on a one man army rampage. Or use the update in weegee's new mission to boost the boss.

EDIT: Thar we go:



And the sprites for laser and drone launcher respectively:




EDIT2:

One more, LFOW said this could work as a flamer/beam palm:

Having done much the same thing to the darkstorm myself, I cannot blame you for your enthusiasm.
However, I sat on my mods long enough that they started looking outdated. Eventually they were actually made obsolete by the next release. This was a good thing, it made me avoid looking like a fool, trying to purvey something that would lead to a conflict such as this one.
That said, were the Behemoth actually a "finished" mod, I think this would not be frowned upon.
For anyone who is not familiar, here is the original thread:
http://forums.datarealms.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15560&hilit=Dummy+Behemoth&start=0

I realize that this is basically just a message to moderators, but bear with me.
Given that LFoW is absent, I think FooGooMan should be allowed to release it, unless it is this forum's fashion to stifle mod content on the basis of the artificial ownership of mods. I say artificial as in the legal sense, this is all derivative.
It's my opinion that FooGooMan should be allowed or even encouraged to tidy this mod up, wrap it in a bow, and if LFoW does not address this for some period of time, then release should be permitted. That is not to say that LFoW's creation should be pushed aside, or his rights (however they are enforced) infringed; he ought to be able to bring it back to the attention of a mod later on if demanded.

Hulk actors are not my thing, but I would still like to play with this mod-mod.
I do not feel that your additions constitute anything particularly original, but they do look like an easy way to waste some time playing CC, and I would be happy to have them join the AI's hour-long assaults on my turret-defended bases.

FooGooMan, you do not help your case by emphasizing how great your modifications are, you have come off as a braggart to some degree, and it does not take much imagination to see other users feeding you some humble pie.

Edit:
In light of the posts following mine, it becomes pretty obvious that LFoW came to a completed stage. Disregard the above.

Has the original mod download been lost? Feel free to re-upload it if it has.

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=15726

works just fine

Also: Phantom, LFoW last logged in on Christmas. Fourteen days ago.

Half a month is now enough time to declare a user's intellectual property abandonware?

Well then, it sure is a same numgun posted in this topic otherwise I'd just go post all his mods everywhere.
Or is numgun different because you people like him? Or because his mods are more "polished"? Higher quality, perhaps?

I go back to a previous post: if you make an exception for any reason, it's negligent. If you make an exception based on the arbitrary definition of "quality" then you're truly stupid. Post all the eye candy you want, Foogooman; it still just looks like the regular old Behemoth to me, and I'm more than inclined to believe that anyone else would say so as well, especially without prior knowledge of your modification.