1. Sorry, you don't speak for all of us. EDIT: Ninja'd
2. Ad Hominem attacks aren't very great arguments, especially against what I consider very valid points.


Not a valid point actually. You ever listen to someone with Coprapralia? [/minor nitpick]

inb4 not a democracy: Indeed, this is an oligarchy. Thing is, the point of the forum is not to mold it to what this or that oligarch wants to see, but to what will attract the most people to make Data happy. Yes, yes, Weasel will give us our signatures back (or the option to have them back, more specifically), but this action has placed an indelible mark on his rulership. An angry mark of arbitrary decision that over time may fade but right now is breeding distrust.


Perhaps these threads should be merged, they're essentially about the same topic.

it's not that kelas isn't making valid points

it's that he's being the biggest smug ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the history of douchebags as he does it

see also: michael moore

just because you might be "right" doesn't mean you can assert yourself without any heed for the opinions of others

or well I guess you could point out that I am not following my own advice here

but I assert myself with the opinion of the people in charge, which is (I guess) the crucial difference

That is true.
So far, the other up-tops haven't weighed in, which I suppose is a smarter option than my own path...
Whelp, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I suppose I'll shut up after this post then, I've made my arguments.

@Weasel: I suppose overall I'm appealing for more transparency as to why you make changes, perhaps an end-game plan of what you want to forum to become and why.
Forget that, I'm just a traditionalist. Que sera, sera.

Now, a small note, because this is slightly irking me:

ad hominem aside (and it's mutual so don't even try to discredit my statements on that basis)

my points are just as valid as yours, Kelas. The fact remains that is isn't an oligarchy any more than it's a democracy; it's a police state. Moderators follow the discipline process laid out by the administrators, and nothing more. Administrators have their own agenda (ideally, the end goal being a better forum). In this case, Weasel is the most direct analogue of Data we've got, and as such his word is law. Weasel be the pope, you dig?

Ultimately, Data's in charge, but Data has directly appointed Weasel and given him discretionary authority to make the decisions he feels make the forum better. Those choices might be contrary to popular opinion, yes, sure; does that make them wrong? Is the will of the "people" inevitably and incontrovertibly the "right" path? Is it not possible that a single, informed person can make a decision that is "better" than the decision of the majority?

I just find it slightly disturbing that over a dispute one sided debate, a man that terrifies me was hired to be an admin.

I have to agree. I got a bit scared when I first saw Grif was an Admin. Mod, I can understand, but Admin? That seems like too much power to consolidate into one person all at once. Especially Grif.

People hate to hear it so I try to refrain from saying it: People can't rule themselves, but most think they can.

I'm sure if everything was up for transparency and voting on everything, nobody would pay taxes and simultaneously complain about the lack of public services.

It's mostly because people are uninformed. Some people honestly and truly believe that the government could continue providing public services without taxes. And without that bit of knowledge, you make uninformed, loud, pitchfork-waving town-hall-razing decisions. And when you are undecided, but your neighbors are all throwing firebombs, you'd better conform or else your house is next.

But people shouldn't have to know everything. I don't believe everyone should take civic management classes and get economics degrees. I don't think everyone should have to learn how the banking system works and how to do brain surgery. We have limited amount of time in this life, and by blindly trusting certain professionals you will end up having a fuller, happier, richer life for it.

Not to say that it can't be abused by same professionals, but that's why we have meta-professionals to watch our professionals for us. I can't say that it's ultimately effective in niggling issues (see also: US healthcare, corporate takeover of government, rich get richer, etc etc) -- but for the most part, it does us good (we have well maintained roads, running water, power, etc).

The man who tries to know everything is the man on a quest for knowledge he can never win. Jack of all trades is master of none. Specialization is good for society, and is the cornerstone of modern civilization (roaming tribes pre-settlement-era were structured so everyone was equal and shared most tasks).

Now each of you may have a talent. Perhaps it's playing video games; perhaps it's writing messages on forums; maybe it's making racist remarks on IRC. Some of you know or have found your future path and will be a specialized professional in something, and people will seek your advice and wisdom. And I'd like to think that, when the time comes, I will defer to your judgements in your respective fields in expertise. Heck, I have already been shown by our fabulous IRC crowd that my porn-industry-monitoring is severely out of date.

Likewise, I ask you to trust me in that I know what I'm doing. I have my reasons for doing it, and I have further reasons for not sharing those reasons with everyone. I have years of experience in very similar environments, and dozens more in varied environments to get a larger perspective. I have a lot of training and schooling under my belt to back it up and a lot of industry professionals that I chat with regularly about these things.

This is an experiment. This isn't a shot in the dark.

And I am not above error; I have postulated what the result of these changes will be, and I hope I am correct. If I am not correct, I guess I'll just have to change it back.

If someone can summarize this in a tl;dr that'd be great

tl;dr weasel is offering a protip

Ninjer'd by Grif.

I think you should remove the badges too. They seem pretty useless. Also post date, join date, members online, and maybe total members. Avatars too.

beaten by skiv AND maximDude on page 2.

your sarcasm is too slow

what did I tell you on IRC, get with the times

I would appreciate it if you did not flame me.

please don't derail this thread

I'm sorry, from which location did I derail this thread? When did I join to derail it, and what is the count of posts that I have been derailing it for?

Seriously, stop trying. It's not even a good attempt.