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The Lounge

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4zK Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:15 pm Posts: 594 Location: Finlandia	Re: The Lounge What did the "D" in dmod.rte stand for? Also, where can I find this prehistoric clutter of masterpiece?
Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:32 pm

maart3n Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:04 pm Posts: 1545	Re: The Lounge I heard asklar left most of the internet behind suddenly or something. I think it was in this topic a few pages bank. but he was a cool guy.
Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:38 pm

TheKebbit Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:24 pm Posts: 3939 Location: NORTH	Re: The Lounge everything except forum games is lame and should be ditched cortex command itself was created solely in order to support a forum with a subforum dedicated to play-by-post entertainment those are the facts how you react to the facts is up to you
Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:03 pm

Mackerel Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 1:30 am Posts: 2876 Location: Rent free in your head. Vacation in your ass.	Re: The Lounge Kettenkrad wrote: I miss Asklar, HIlarious enough, he decided one day that he was tired of DRLFF. Straight up left without telling anyone goodbye. I tried convincing him to come back, even to #LD but he didn't want any part of it. It's too bad. I miss him too. I should try to talk to him again.
Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:43 pm

Benpasko Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:26 am Posts: 1633	Re: The Lounge TheKebbit wrote: forum games is lame and should be ditched cortex command itself was created solely in order to support a forum with a subforum dedicated to immense faggotry those are the facts how you react to the facts is up to you Fixed that for ya.
Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:34 pm

TheLastBanana DRL Developer Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:27 am Posts: 3138 Location: A little south and a lot west of Moscow	Re: The Lounge Coops wrote: I wouldn't say it's all just Offtopic/forum game people here now. There's still a good number of lurkers and veteran mod makers that help out with any game related troubles people have. Throughout the forum's development I'd say this is a rather cozy and ~~chill~~ Arctic place Of course, we still have great people like weegee and Major cranking out mods, and I don't mean to discredit them! That said, they're the exception to the rule when it comes to the modding/scene portion of the forum — in general, people don't seem to stick around for too long. Shook wrote: I don't know if it was just me being a whiner though, but i feel that the community was a LOT less forgiving back then than it is now. This forum was seriously pretty mean back then, yeah. I remember reading on other forums about how they had visited here and left because it was so toxic. That's why we ended up with weasel for a while, and that was certainly a big part of what I was still trying to fix after weasel left.
Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:55 pm

Mackerel Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 1:30 am Posts: 2876 Location: Rent free in your head. Vacation in your ass.	Re: The Lounge What is that vermin doing these days anyways? I heard he was doing work for a skyship like game?
Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:57 pm

Mackerel Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 1:30 am Posts: 2876 Location: Rent free in your head. Vacation in your ass.	Re: The Lounge Nonsequitorian wrote: He just up and left? That's rather odd. I almost don't believe it. I thought it was some sort of health problem. If he's happy that's all I care about. I guess that's all anybody can say for somebody we only know as a nickname. You must really like him.
Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:15 am

Emogotsaone Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:18 am Posts: 717	Re: The Lounge SORRY TO INTERRUPT If you wanna read probably the dumbest and nerdiest thing ever, here ya go. Code: Tyrone: I just watched the third & seventh. Holy ♥♥♥♥, I can imagine it would be hard for the dude who made that to watch any modern films with just average CG Spooks McGoose: I'll watch it I guess Tyrone: So artsy Spooks McGoose: you didn't watch the gift tho Spooks McGoose: so what matters Spooks McGoose: now Spooks McGoose: ever Tyrone: I thought that was the one you sent me... 'll watch it after I finish my chem Spooks McGoose: nvm yo Tyrone: yo Spooks McGoose: When it gets to the folded metal it looks kinda silly Tyrone: The weird wavy buildings? Spooks McGoose: cha Spooks McGoose: One of the hardest things to realize with lighting is that literally everything carries the same information from light. Like a mirror is receiving the same light as a piece of toast. They just bounce off and absorb and have texture that's all wacky. Tyrone: I know, its so weird to think about. I noticed that the way these people make their CG so realistic isnt so much in being realistic to what we see with our eyes, but more rooted in the word "photorealistic" as one thing that makes them look so good is how they replicate the flaws that a camera has, and what limits the camera itself, instead of the technology used to generate these environments Tyrone: ya knuh? Spooks McGoose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAqoeHix5s Tyrone: get rekt Spooks McGoose: Like imagine if a computer could render a sprinkler outside on a lawn, but every blade of grass, every single water droplet moving from a well to the hose and out the sprinkler (each with it's own distorted refraction of light) and then it somehow sees it how we see it. Spooks McGoose: And way beyond that too Tyrone: I clicked the link 4 times and my computer was lagging so within half a second of eachother, so I just heard the crash and all the noise over itself Tyrone: That would take more than just the "animation" we have now and be more rooted in simulation and would be closer to a video game than a movie or photo. Thats weird to think about... Spooks McGoose: so wanna play killing floor Spooks McGoose: where lights put circles around where they're pointed Spooks McGoose: SO REAL Tyrone: I'd love to in like... 30 minutes maybe. I'm slow at chemistry Spooks McGoose: reactions take time Tyrone: Why is realism such a sought after thing anyway? Isn't the goal to do things we couldn't normally? Tyrone: ha Spooks McGoose: That's true, but I guess a lot of people light nice shadows and VR ♥♥♥♥ cause videogames offer scenarios that can feel life like but don't have consequences. Kinda like dreams but hyper-realistic video games being a third type of consciousness Spooks McGoose: Imagine if a videogame had a realistic reaction and gore and body damage to a person you shot, they had a story to them with a life generated to be as complex as your own and they're final words are spoken in their voice and how the talk and who they love Spooks McGoose: I doubt kids would kill as many people in video games Spooks McGoose: I think hyper-realistic video games could also host some serious mental ♥♥♥♥ though Spooks McGoose: Like VR PTSD Tyrone: If we could simulate and entire world as complex, if not more-so than ours virtually, we would be in the matrix. Spooks McGoose: Das tru Tyrone: But yeah, when you get that realistic of a simulation, Either you'd completely lose people to the VR world, or people would become unable to distinguish the two, and they would do things they would've never done in normal life Spooks McGoose: Like the human brain is being mapped and recreated and artificial intelligence is planned to have a breakthrough in 2030 when it's as complex as a human brain. Then imagine you have hundreds of AIs building a videogame, each one offering their own humor, creativity, and darknesses. Say you set them off to create a videogame in a year. Imagine how much they could accomplish realitically. Then you could send them off to make games like DayZ and Jet Set Radio and Halo and CoD would still be boring but like themed realities. Spooks McGoose: Weird dude. Tyrone: But would they have personalities? Yeah, they could be more complex than us and capable of more, but they would still be pre-programmed machines. Is creativity really something you can simulate either? Yeah, you can generate random things that even work together based on a string of criteria, but is that what creativity is? I have always seen creativity as the way someone breaks the mold, and does what only a living creature could. , Spooks McGoose: There's always an attachment for humans to think we're smart. That we're top dog. In our extremely limited scope of the solar system, so far we're pretty smart. But still, things are bigger than us, smaller than us, slower than us, faster than us, can kill us, and we can kill them too with ingenuity, but the fact is we're just different. Simply different. I think any intelligence or even not, just forces of nature from a bacteria to a whale to a cat are all unique and adapted. As far as robots go, you could shoot for a perfect functioning and systematically effiecient system (a brain that's been refined) but I'm sure there could be other AIs that have mental disabilities and personalities. It could be emulated, it's just hard to think of it now. Hell, AIs could be superior in not only intelligence and repetion, but maybe even social patterns and affairs like war and food and water. They could be our saints and they might love us or look at us as a function. Not all humans were born the same, and so it is with computers. Spooks McGoose: #psychic Tyrone: That makes sense, but doesn't that directly go against the idea of an AI? In order for one to exist, there needs to be biological life to create it. Hence the artificial part. But then again, what do you call a robot and what do you just refer to as life? Could you call all "life" on earth different types of machines, since we all have basic needs to fulfill, or instincts, but that could be considered the same as an AI with basic needs programmed in, yet it is free to do as it wants when it isn't trying to fill those needs? Tyrone: I'm rambling now Spooks McGoose: I dunno maybe I'm too optimistic Spooks McGoose: You make a good point Tyrone: I think as long as we think of robots as "machines" they'll never be truly advanced, but as soon as we find ways to break the threshold of "life" (♥♥♥♥ that sounds deep) They could eventually be considered beings of their own, separate from biological organisms, no better and no worse, just different. And maybe they would be able to, in the very distant future, live on their own, completely separate from us, and form their own society. Tyrone: OR MAYBE I'M JUST LOOKING WAY TOO FAR INTO THIS Spooks McGoose: To kinda side with you, on the quantum level our universe can be truly random. Like pure ♥♥♥♥ random (ICP allusion). And I guess the best an AI can do is make an algorithm for random, which in itself contains patterns regardless. Spooks McGoose: BUT ♥♥♥♥ IMAGINE IF THEY COULD EVOLVE Tyrone: Woah. Our universe is a ♥♥♥♥ program. Tyrone: I feel like once they reached a certain level, they'd be "perfect" for whatever scenario they're currently in, and could adapt or evolve as they saw fit, in order to cope with their surroundings. Kind of like controlled evolution Spooks McGoose: Imagine if they could take our space programs by the horns to mine asteroids for the earth and be given bodies to give their lives to assist the elderly and disabled and save people from natural disasters. Spooks McGoose: "Ideas About Roobits" Shane and Rob Tyrone: But eventually they'd never be able to evolve any further and it wouldn't be so much an advancement, just a change. Tyrone: Let's publish this with a crayon drawing of a robbit on the front Sorry if you actually read that.
Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:58 am

Adriaan Data Realms Elite Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:19 pm Posts: 797 Location: The Netherlands	Re: The Lounge Emogotsaone wrote: Sorry if you actually read that. Not at all, it's interesting to think about. I realize this might be a pessimistic way of viewing it, but I think that we can only ever create something equal to us, not greater, at most. If we are replicating human beings, we can only ever replicate as much as we know about ourselves. So when the technology is there and enough money and time has been spent I think we could replicate a human being, but it will only ever be as great as the people ourselves, like I think Tyrone (lawl) says at the end. Tbh, I don't know how the brain lets us think as we think, and I don't know if current knowledge can explain that far. Maybe if/once we know how that works, we'll then be able to replicate that and truly make something that can evolve beyond our own capabilities, but for now I think it'll only have the same potential. It's advantages would just be quicker arithmatic and possibly physical power, things like that. Probably more or less contrasted by more power/time needed process emotions and stuff, things that the human brain handles as easily as a computer handles large-scale addition or multiplication. Actually, I think that would just be concerning a computer based AI. Don't think anything was mentioned about what the AI is based on, what it physically is, so I guess those traits don't really apply or matter here anyways. I don't doubt AI driven machines could form completely self-supporting societies once we're able to give them the functions/capabilities needed to know how. Dogs, wolves and other animals already form what I think are societies, so it doesn't even have to be human level of complication (even though I guess we're still far off from creating something as complicated as a dog).
Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:34 am

Sothe Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:34 am Posts: 2034	Re: The Lounge See people praising an incomplete game for its modding community is just dumb. I really think Bethesda is a terrible company, yet Skyrim has been one of the most fun games I've ever played, and the second most played game for me ever (behind Tales of Symphonia)(It's not even a sandbox game). Still though, you have to draw the line somewhere. Here's what I generally think of Data Realms.. Data created a better forum than a game. It's the selfless nature of the suckers who took developing the game into their own hands that kept the site afloat in the early days, and it is me among many other off topic forumites who keep the site active. This is quite ironic, since I joined the site to bother Contrary, and stayed to bother Torrent. This leads into a big announcement of mine, so I'll keep it spoilered. Back to my original point, I have no reason to praise Data other than the fact that he made a decent forum based around a dimly lit game in perma-beta. Weasel sounds like what I was almost like and could've become on Zerozaku. Glad that didn't happen. Having fun is rather fun.
Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:13 am

CaveCricket48 Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:52 pm Posts: 13144 Location: Here	Re: The Lounge Emogotsaone wrote: I realize this might be a pessimistic way of viewing it, but I think that we can only ever create something equal to us, not greater, at most. If we are replicating human beings, we can only ever replicate as much as we know about ourselves. So when the technology is there and enough money and time has been spent I think we could replicate a human being, but it will only ever be as great as the people ourselves, like I think Tyrone (lawl) says at the end. First off, how do you define "greater?" I doubt you mean physically, because that would be the easiest thing to improve. So, mentally then? It depends on what you see as good. Are emotions a good thing? Do they make it easier to function or more difficult? Is simply giving something more processing power making it smarter? Or dumping it with loads of knowledge as well? If you can consistently create organisms that are equal to what are considered the "best" humans, then that's already better, and exceeding that would be boosting their physical abilities further, increasing processing power, and memory. Also, if you have a plain average human and make them immortal, in the sense that they don't die from age or become inflicted with chronic mental illnesses, that individual will eventually surpass humans simply from accumulated knowledge and experience.
Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:20 am

Sothe Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:34 am Posts: 2034	Re: The Lounge Emo, are you familiar with Descartes? If we were to even create something "greater" than ourselves, they wouldn't be greater than us. With intellect rivaling our own gives way to them choosing their own destiny. They may be creations; yet they think, therefor, they are. Once a creature becomes existential, it is on the same plane as us. They too can wrap their heads around morality, subjectivism, and philosophy. So in their minds, what would make them better than us? What would make them worse? We ask the same things. Can anything truly be greater than our species if such greatness can't be quantified? Are we, the creators beneath them, despite the fact that we have created them? In short, advanced thought leads to liberalism, subjectivism, and autonomy. They will act for themselves like us, think of others, and see that their feats don't control their destiny as a species. And if what we create is not something of intelligence, then we use ours to enforce coexistence. If what we create is intelligent, hostile, and free of emotion, then perhaps we should worry. Yet they wouldn't be better as we would have emotion, they would be able to stop us, given they have the means and reasons. Honestly though, the emotionless robot trope is so dead tired, I've had enough of it. If humonculi are created, I hope that they are creatures of emotion like us. They could give us more insight.
Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:32 am

Foa Data Realms Elite Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:14 am Posts: 3966 Location: Canadida	Re: The Lounge I couldn't think of anything conclusively, or in an organized manner because I'm mostly compiling my raw and rough thoughts on pure text, much like a child. Anyways, any new form that can sustain a personality/person/advanced intelligence/whatever would provide interesting insight for humans, whom have a personality/person/advanced intelligence/whatever. Any new form would have immense differences when it comes to instincts and other basic function, so the issue seems intractable. As intractable as imagining life on new planets. As far as being the best in raw capabilities, we can find animals that are better than us, but I think the terms are awfully vague. It is easy to gauge physical capabilities: frogs can cryogenically freeze themselves (withstand low temperatures); dogs can hear us across the block. But the mental landscape's pretty tricky business: dogs can associate and differentiate the various sounds they can hear with intricate meanings (dogs are half-literate if well-trained) much like human children, but at far superior distances. The frogs can prevent organ damage by wringing their organs of fluid, and enter a catatonia until a significant portion of their upper body thaws in the warmer seasons. When it comes to my uneducated ideas (read, juvenile): a different physiology is very deciding of how something develops as a person, if ever. It can be seen with the different sexes; the autistic, whom occasionally have clearly different brain structures, and the grossly injured, which is seen to sometime cause immense changes in persona and thought process. (In one case, what language someone spoke) Something about this advanced intelligence not being some quantifiable thing, but a manifest system, something not simply human, but personal
Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:26 am

TheLastBanana DRL Developer Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:27 am Posts: 3138 Location: A little south and a lot west of Moscow	Re: The Lounge For the record, weasel (aka Andy Moore) left the forum to focus on his own game, Steambirds. It made him a lot of money and had a few sequels which also made a lot of money, so he's doing fine. He's actually a pretty nice dude, and while I disagreed with some of his policies, he was doing what he was hired to do. Like Shook mentioned, this forum used to be really hostile, and he did help to solve that even if it meant pissing off some longstanding members.
Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:26 am

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