I don't get why DF is on his list, either. It's a pretty common game and I personally find the UI rather intuitive after an hour or so. It's really quick to navigate between the different screens.

On a different note, personally, I don't give a damn if a game is indie or not. I rate games by gameplay, not by the developers or publishers.

i have nostalgia for fez because i had it on xbox around the time my mom was ok so it makes me really sad
i enjoyed it but other than that i dont think its super amazing or anything
never payed attention to phil fish but he said the pc doesnt have good controls for platformers so hes obviously pretty stupid

1. it has ♥♥♥♥ graphics
2. it was made lazily
3. pants on head gameplay

Also DF is overrated by neckbeards. its an okay game.


I mean yeah I guess there's nothing inherently wrong about encouraging other game makers to make their games in the laziest way possible, don't see a problem there.
Also notice how I like some pixel games, as pixel art can be good, but almost always is ♥♥♥♥. Remember the thing with Gunpoint where you said I should try the game before I say its ♥♥♥♥? Yeah, well I tried it, and it had a ♥♥♥♥ pixel job too. It takes little effort to figure out light sources. Kind of rambling, but you get what I mean. Encouraging laziness, almost never done properly.

Phil Fish = ♥♥♥♥

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Ifue2xGFY relevant
enjoy cognitive dissonance

I skimmed over and missed this and it made me laugh

Also I think DF is good. It really depends on your imagination though. It's not GOTYAY, but it's still a good game. I think the main downsides are that it's hard to get into and it's ugly as sin unless you're used to it.

ITT Sothe explains once again how liking games and/or aesthetic choices that he doesn't like qualifies you as lazy, a fedora-wearing neckbeard, or a "sperg" whilst abusing quotation marks in order to imply that others' opinions are illegitimate.

It's not an aesthetic choice to make shitty pixel art; yet it is to make pixel art. And I wasn't "abusing" "quotation" "marks". Maybe I have to "explain" it to you "slowly", so you "understand"

using "quotes" like this "helps" set the "tone" of the post, and adds a bit of "sarcasm".
Not like I'm someone who makes sarcastic posts at all. I mean, you always comment on how serious my totally outlandish and nonsensical posts are.

Yeah, I'd say you're kind of abusing quotation marks.

"Good" — okay, sure, you disagree, so you're using it sarcastically.
"Puzzle" — I guess you don't find Closure to have puzzles? I mean, the whole point of the game is to solve puzzles. Perhaps you're implying that they aren't puzzling enough?
"Game" — okay really what the ♥♥♥♥? You're seriously trying to suggest it's not even a game because you didn't like the puzzles?
"Indie" — apparently you differentiate between one form of indie (i.e. games you like) and another form of indie (i.e. games you don't like) that for some reason necessitates quotation marks. I don't see how it makes them less indie. Your point was made that you didn't like them when you put the quotation marks around "good." This isn't an ironic or sarcastic use of the term, you're just throwing them in there now.

The only tone this is setting for me is yet another Sothe post in which we all get told that indie games suck, unless they're indie games Sothe likes. Unless your post was a joke, in which case it continues to not be a funny joke. Or maybe it was a half-joke, and you're being meta-ironic or something, in which case I don't even know what to say because that's just confusing.

everything i say is meta-ironic

Let me "explain" this in simple words
Sometimes I use "humor" to carry my posts. The fact I stated I was using these so called ""quotation" "marks"" sarcastically shows how dense you are, just like this follow up to your "meta-ironic" inability to "understand" sarcasm and "sarcastically" placed "quot"a"tiO"n "markS"S"S"S"S"

John is going to the movies with his friends. He enjoys movies, especially this one. When asked if he wanted popcorn, he said, "how about I popcorn you in the face?" John in no way hates going to the movies, regardless of his malicious phrase-turning. This should explain how "sarcastic" "use" of "quotation marks" correlates with me not liking lazily made, derivative, or poor quality indie games. Now drop it before I sarcasm you in the mouth.

lets use another real-world example, but this time to explain the "only games Sothe likes" bit. Joanna was at the supermarket, talking to a soccer mom who had so graciously granted her audience, as those ignorant youths must be put in line by the elite elder folk. The soccer mom said "dear, why are you buying organic food when you could get twice as much for half the price without the "organic" label?" Joanna calmly retorted, "sorry, but I prefer the veggies that are naturally grown without any bad chemicals in them." The dumbfounded soccer mom, flared nostrils and all, inhaled deeply to prepare herself for the long winded drivel she was no doubt ready to spit like fire upon the organic food lover. "So what? Are regular foods not good enough for you? Why should you tell everyone that the organic foods that you like are right, and the chemical grown ones are so wrong, despite their plentiful supply and reasonable price? It's no wonder that you young eco-friendly elitists are hated by everyone, forcing your organic food down everyones throats." Joanna, blown back by sheer force and spit emitted from the otherworldly monster regained her composure and replied with a counter argument, "It's just my opinion, I didn't ask you to buy the organic foods, just said that I preferred it over the chemically treated veggies." The soccer mom then begins a metamorphosis, not becoming more than human, but more than our world could comprehend. As her skin slowly burns off, revealing her blue-green flesh, she levitates as various produce products revolve around her. She shrieks, "ALL WILL SUBMIT TO THE MIGHT OF FRUCTO-ACIDIA, LORD OF CHEMICAL ENGINEERING." "Not so fast, you pugly piss ♥♥♥♥", shouts a shining figure from the distance. A beautiful body, possibly crafted by the Olympian gods of old, with magnificent angel wings, and a mere black speedo; Aziz Shavershian flies into the fray to protect poor Joanna from the mad jelly posers. "Your fight against health, fitness, and aesthetics has gone on long enough, you grotesque flab monster". Before Fructo-Acidia could make a sudden move, Zyzz does a power shout that breaks her down into simple molecules, chanting the ancient words, "you mad brah". The world is safe again, thanks to our glorious hero Zyzz.

How primitive is it to act like I'm speaking objectively. Everything you say is an opinion, even things you think are concrete facts. I'm not telling you to live like me, just saying that I think the aforementioned games not in my list are terrible examples of the best "indie" "gaming" has to offer.

Valve is (or was) an independant developer

TF2 is pretty good for a free to play fps.

All I'm saying is that the way you use quotation marks to imply sarcasm makes you look pretentious, especially when you throw them on every word separately. It's silly.

Also, your story about the soccer mom kind of misses the mark, because you're not just innocently wandering into the thread and saying "I prefer these games for x reason;" you're wandering into the thread and saying "everyone who disagrees with my opinion is a sperg neckbeard and here's of terrible games (ps it's almost all the games everyone before me mentioned)."

I haven't once accused you of thinking your opinion is an objective truth. I'm fully aware that it's just your opinion. I'm making fun of the fact that you intersperse your opinion with shots at both the taste and intelligence of everyone else in the thread, which is par for the course for your posts. You have to admit you have a certain acerbic... style to your posts, and I'm doing nothing more than drawing attention to it.

Also, on topic, Spelunky is definitely up there in my list of great indie games.

So, apparently we can debase others' opinions with tangential aesops about relativism, and deatomization.
This is worse than this:


Oh, and tlb, I must find you on steam.
Ever try Towerclimb, or Probability 0? I have yet to clear Chapter 1... or get Far in either of p0's modes.

I haven't had a chance to play either of them, though I have heard of them both. Also, I think you just added me a few days ago on Steam (unless you mean find me online, in which case that's because I keep leaving Steam in offline mode by accident).

You're using pretentious wrong. You could've just said silly twice.

The story was a bit misleading. I insult people a lot, but it's really more like trash talking. You know, it's like what dudebros do. And I came into the thread explicitly stating that I felt everyone was using bad examples of "da best indie". And yes I was trash talking.

That's part of the trash talking nature. I'll acerbic your face buddy.

@Foa, my fables were "sarcastic"

back "on topic"
What do you feel some of the "best" indie "developers" are?
Valve in their indie days were pretty hot, as Urch said.
Reverge Labs is my recent favorite, but a more long standing one of course being the now disbanded GSC Gameworld of STALKER fame.

Nope, I meant what I said. Your use of quotations marks appears to be implying that you are more intelligent and better cultured than the rest of the people in the thread. That would be the definition of pretentious, and it's completely in line with the rest of what I said about your posts. Regardless of your intention in using the quotation marks, that's precisely what I feel it's coming off as (note that I said it makes you look pretentious, and not that it necessarily is pretentious).

And yes, you were trash talking. And I was making fun of it, because I think it's ridiculous.


I'd say my favourite indie developers are probably Team Meat and The Behemoth (Alien Hominid, Castle Crashers). I'm also fond of Arrowhead Studios (Magicka and Showdown Effect), much as their games tend to be pretty unpolished.