That's the European Union's fault, thanks to the huge price Britain has to pay to be part of the EU.

Said money gets put in handouts to countries like Spain.

And we have to make cut backs in police, military spending and the NHS.

God, if I could travel backwards in time and kill one person, just one person, it'd be the one who got Britain into the EU.


Say what?

Mostly the bold part. The liberties you guys in the US love so much lack in certain areas. For example, in Britain, I can burn the flag. Smoking cannabis/pot/marijuana/♥♥♥♥ is illegal, yes, but the law is not even enforced. Even prostitution is legal. Hell, even some guns, such as bolt action rifles, long barrel revolvers and some shotguns are legal, all you need is a certificate stating that you have been taught the proper use of the weapon and all that.

Last post on this topic before I move to the gun thread for it.

UK


So your crime rate is caused by cuts in police spending, meaning criminals have less deterrent against committing crimes. Would you not agree that the possibility of a gun under the counter of a shop would be a suitable replacement? You simply take the gun and put it in the hands of an ordinary citizen.

It doesn't matter whether or not we're talking about WW2 or the revolution; A civilian population armed with firearms is a serious threat to even organized militaries if they wanted to be. See: Issues in the middle east.

Governments will become corrupt, that's no question. America's constitution was created to include to the right to bear arms to counteract that issue.



All in all, it comes down to punishing a small group or the whole group, you decide which you'd want to roll with. It's pretty pointless to continue this argument since we're all firmly rooted in our own beliefs.

So to change the subject, weighted piano keys. Those feel really nice to play.

Please tell me you understand just how much he was joking.
♥♥♥♥♥, please.
Even back then, the US had a big military. They didn't call it a super power for nothing. Hell, the only way America would've ripped Japan's ass open faster is IF they had tried a land assault. ♥♥♥♥, you had people going to the recruitment offices in DROVES to sign up to fight for our country, that period was probably the strongest (proportionally) our military has ever been!


1. Maybe, but it's also true. You take away America's freedom, you're gonna have problems.
3. Guns are ♥♥♥♥ scary. Very few people have the balls to run up to and tackle a crazed gunman.
4. Still the biggest civilian gun market in the world vanishing.
5. I trust my army, I just don't trust the individuals that make it up.
6. Then what ARE you saying? Tasers can't just solve every problem. Some times, you need a gun.
7. A semi automatic taser is literally a long-ranged cardiac arrest machine. And they're not attacking a cop, they're attacking a private security company guard if you'll recall correctly. And anyone with reason enough to break into somewhere that has private security isn't going to be stupid enough to go it alone.
8. They make you experience excrutiating pain and uncontrollable muscle spasms through an electric current. It lasts for a minute or two, but in most cases you won't die unless the taser is mishandled, in which case the user should not be given the taser anyway and then tasers are a menace and tasers should be outlawed and we've come full circle.
But in most cases? You don't die. And death is a HELL of a lot better motivator than pain.

Sad but true.
But then they can say it's used for hunting and use it FOR MURDER!

I'm pretty sure Duh said nothing of the sort. He said that using a weapon that cause excrutiating pain and sometimes death isn't much better than a weapon that causes a lot of pain and sometimes death.

True, some things are different. But America is pretty much 100 years of "♥♥♥♥ you, you don't tell me what to do", followed by "♥♥♥♥ you, you don't tell me how to run my ♥♥♥♥", and now we're "♥♥♥♥ you, you don't tell me what I can't do anymore". Of course, that includes the freedom to fail, but that's a WHOLE nother argument and not really relevant here anyway, but I always love the idea.

On the subject of WW2: Atomic weapons are relevant. Why? Because whoever has one in exclusion of everyone else is an unquestionable authority. Imagine if the US had the only atomic technology in the world, if Russia had never developed it. Everyone else would basically be forced to comply with everything the US asked under threat of massive retaliation. The same principle applies to guns. If you give your military and police force monopolistic access to guns, you are voluntarily giving away your ability to civil disobedience. Your government becomes the supreme ruler, without any ability from the citizens to question its authority.

I can't stress this enough in conjunction with the police brutality statistic I linked.

Was considering mentioning nukes, but I've since forgotten the argument I had that made them relevant. Something about how everyone with nukes would "NOPE" if the world tried to get rid of all of them universally.

Yeah, there are some pretty deep rooted beliefs here.

The sad thing, is this is so close to the truth, he may as well not be.

America had a larger everything than Japan. They were still slaughtered in masses. America only joined years into the war because of Japan.

1. I can't win here. Americans are special.
3. A lot of people would tackle someone who just shot at someone and is busy reloading a cumbersome rifle.
4. The corporations will live.
5. I can't win here either obviously.
6. KILLING IS NOT NECESSARY.
7. You attack someone and they incapacitate you and you die because you had a weak heart? Your fault.
8. Tasers are built to be non lethal, they are hard to kill people with. Guns are worse.

Not much better is still better, and honetly, they are a LOT better. NZ cops use them. No mass cop murders here.



@Duh, there is only so far you can go. Lets just go back to the stone age, why not.
I don't see why you guys are so affraid of your military, the soldiers are normal people too.
They are there to defend the population so the population doesn't have to defend itself, that's the point.

It's not the military that we fear, it's the government that controls it. They're fine for defending the nation from outside threats, but how do we resolve conflicts within our own country if the enemy is the government? If the civilian populace is unable to defend itself because firearms are all under government control, it wouldn't be hard for a corrupt leader to bend the nation to their will.

The point you're missing is that many Americans do not trust in their government.

Duh you are right but this was a conversation I wish I hadn't missed, think about it what would happen if all guns were banned? I'm pretty sure criminals wouldn't care because well they're criminals, if they have guns and we don't where are we? ♥♥♥♥ that's where, and I'm not talking about like a soft go in, I'm talking about some big beefy black dude named Bubba with a very large... appendage, that's how ♥♥♥♥, if we can't defend ourselves then who will? Not the cops for damn sure unless they develop teleporter technology to get to a scene on a split seconds notice (which is VERY unlikely) then we will have no defense, but if a guy has a gun and you have a gun and this guy is probably ♥♥♥♥ up on meth or some other drug than the odds are in your favor, but if they aren't then the odds will be pretty even.

The military's job is to defend the nation from outside attack in times of war. I don't know if you've noticed, but our military is currently out in the middle of the desert fighting common people with guns who just want us gone. It's not even a war, it's just us out there because we're protecting our commercial (not national mind you) interests in foreign oil.
That right there is why we Americans as a whole do not trust the military or the government, because it's used for things it should not be used for.

I don't see why you're straw-manning me as saying we should regress technologically. I'm saying the opposite, we should all advanced and put ourselves on equal footing.

Ok just for all people to know how much money have we made off of oil in Afghan? not much because we're not there for oil, we're there so we can set up a democracy in a country with people killing fellow people, and the taliban aren't common people they're animals that should be put down.

Yer a Democracy, your soldiers have brains, They will not mindlessly massacre their own countrymen.
If you don't like the government, vote a new one in.

Look, what all you home defense nuts don't seem to see, is that other countries do just fine with out guns.
In NZ it is damned hard to get a gun, but we aren't all cowering in homemade bunkers.
Burglar bars are illegal, because more people have died from housefires than break ins.
This is so much better than the "Freedom" you americans have.

You are on equal footing, you want a gun, join the army.


Please leave.

Nah we're there for oil.
The democracy thing is a pretense, it's been the standard pretense the US has been using for years to take control of places, old Cold War stuff.


Course they won't. Until their countrymen are labelled as terrorists, and their superiors insist they're doing the right thing.

North Korea is already making insults and threats through their teeth.
If we go and try to capture a whole country which bases itself heavily on it's own culture and god with a Christian way of life, all hell will break loose in a anarchic community of rioters who fear any further global expansion and *heathens*.

tl;dr people who run America aren't stupid, you're a complete ♥♥♥♥ idiot.