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 1.0 Feedback 
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Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 10:17 pm
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Post 1.0 Feedback
Initially the campaign was great! Finally there is objective. The end! But then things started to get too easy.

First I would like to get bugs out of the way.
1. Liquidation of brain for cash does not liquidate a brain. Meaning AI gets free cash when it's loosing (don't know if that happens to player since never played that bad)
2. The graphic glitches with campaign screen. (for example the line from right side of the screen going to the brain indicator draws the line to wrong spot. right next to the brain)
3. Heard from a friend that fullscreen with mac version has issues.
4. Prefab layouts are so expensive that AI takes ages to even start the attack.
5. In the aftermath of battle you can still do things you could while in battle (dig gold, buy units) but without GUI. either disable the thing properly and freeze time or enable GUI.

Now to more detailed problems. First of all, game is too easy. I can see grand improvement with AI but it could be better.
Half the being too easy problem does not come from AI though. The biggest problem comes from special tiles that player can place on base design. Teleporting enemy units on their path to the brain, to the deadly bottom of the level is big game breaker. Also the push tiles are similar problem.
FIX)
Remove those tiles or make them super expensive
Also Make a layer of unbreakable stuff at the bottom (and make sure you cant build override that layer)

Second is the Anti-Air bots. On most dig sites having six AA-bots spread out evenly causes ANY attack to fail under 10 seconds. and it only costs 1350 OZ. That is less than decent base.
FIX)
Make the reload speed for AA-missiles be long and allow player the setup his initial drop(s) instead of just sending the AA and brain in slow drop-ship that AA takes out quickly. For example crates can't be caught by AA.

Third is the undead units. Can you guess what is the cheapest and most deadly unit in game?
Drop-crate + Skeleton + Napalm.
And any faction can use it. This suicide unit can wipe out even army if it is well placed. And when other units are dead it can hunt brain unopposed.
FIX)
don't let the drop bombs be held in by units. (because the explosion happens always)

Now for things I like and don't like:

The white bot faction is epic! The weapons are such niche that you have to be careful what weapons you take where. Any other faction could just go with some automatic rifle but as white bot you have less options when raiding bunkers.
All factions have nice flavor to them. Every one of them have something that others lack. More differences please!
While I like differences some factions simply lack some items. For example right now only dummy and coalition factions have stationary defense units.
Non-affiliated items/units. Please get rid of them. Also while I understand "crabs are free" thing they still can cause issues. Do you know how much weight you can put on drop crate by filling it with crabs. I don't know either but you can still make is so heavy that the crate digs through any matter, (and with gold that can be profitable drop crate). Also the crabs start lagging the game or with enough stress, crash or freeze it.
Also non-affiliated items makes the issues you otherwise have too easy to bypass.

Now that the issues of like and dislike are done with here is some ideas:

Possibly also remove the non-faction affiliated items and give each faction their own.
I for one would like to see the difference between different factions when it comes to the more menial actions like drop bombs, mining, scanning, drop ships, drop crates. Give the factions that flavor that makes the defense against particular faction vary. Also the issue with suicide bombing could become part of faction specific items.

More sites. I honestly don't care if they are copies but I would like to see more massive games where AI has chance to get started. Right now if all players attack same spot (and it's highly probable) the game ends for at least one of the AI players. With lot more places to strike from the start the game becomes fun. Also make the sites vary in tactical benefit.
For example have some sites be less profitable than others. Also initially some sites could have something extra like Zombie infestation. But for crying out loud don't let player know the benefits they get before they conquer the site. Also the zombie infestation type things should not be obvious. You could find hint about it if you orbital scan.

Technological advancement. Until you figure out or even bother to figure out how to get this game work in Online, the game-play should always be considered as single-player. To keep players interested you should add idea of advancement in what you can do. Sure the player can get more units on a single battle when you have lot of money but other things are much more interesting.
Example! Instead of investing gold in building ♥♥♥♥ or attacking you could invest in technology. You could unlock new items for the actual battle. You could get better orbital scanner (for more penetration when scanning from orbit.). You could get passive buffs for battle (slow regen, reduced faction prices, etc.).
Possibly tie those advancements to particular base so that they could be captured. (making them special tiles that you create in base building mode that can be destroyed in battle)
And if tied to bases with placeable tiles, the natural special sites (zombies?) could have unique tile that you cannot build by default. (making some dig sites valuable in some other way than gold.)
The cool different sites would give the game some rogue like vibe where game is about losing and discovering.
To capturing these unique sites, remember that zombie mission (bring computer chip to the mainframe to win)
Now think that as the way to beat these natural sites. Also you would have competition over who gets there first as AI might do the same thing at same time.


That's me done for today. Please discuss the ideas (I know some might have already been put up somewhere but this post was mostly made for feedback after confirming what new campaign mode entails.


Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:15 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:40 am
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
Great post here, I agree with about everything. However, I think the AI is the problem when it comes to defense. A single player-controlled heavy with a minigun/revolver cannon/something else, can hold off pretty much an infinite amount of hostiles. A good example is enemies with miniguns, they never spin up the gun before jumping down into dangerous areas, or start shooting immediatly even though the area is no longer "hidden" in the Fog of War. They hesitate before firing to simulate a players reaction time. The AI can't be handicapped like that (awe see them coming and start firing half a second before they arrive). There are many examples like that, which makes defense the easiest thing ever. Giving us a handicap option which gives the AI improved jetpacks, instant reaction times and no fog of war would make defense a little bit more fair.

And yes, AA is OP.


Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:16 pm
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Data Realms Elite
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:01 am
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Location: In your office, earning your salary.
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
Well you did say many things I actually agree with, specially with the AA Drone thing and a player-set loadout for when invading a site insted of standard Brain + AA.


I also agree a lot on more sites with special characteristics. Specially with the later. I mean, map with special characteristics could be as simple as adding some actors with weapons belonging to no team, to more complex things like no team zombie spawner (what you said with the idea of zombie cave) or even some sort of bunker buried deep in some map (like in the desert map which is kinda tall) with an item inside which you can retrieve and return to space for a cash bonus.


Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:34 pm
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Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 10:17 pm
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
Thanks for discussing, Anyway. I played some more just now and found few more bugs.
played 1 v 3 against three teamed up AI.
Every single site gives every single player of same team 1000 instead of dividing the number. This has nothing to do with how many brains and who's brains they are. So technically in 1 v 3, team with three players can take three sites from beginning and cause each players income become 2800 per turn.
Second bug is related to that as AI wastes brains to empty sites (no simulation team communication).
Fix)
Make same team use same pool of resources for brains and gold. Allow only single brain conquer a site. others are returned to pool.

Third bug is the fact that game does not end. Taking all sites and killing all opposing team brains doesn't end the game.
Fix)
-.-''

Also game quickly comes to standstill when there is lack of brains to use in an attack.
Fix)
Allow players to retreat from a site with their brain after conquering them.
Or
Allow purchase of a brain with very large sum of money (10000).
The second fix would be better since AI could attack again without having to create even more complex AI.

While the duplication of resources bug is good way to bring more difficult game, it's still issue. Possibly add resource generation handicap instead of brain handicap. AI needs the money more than it needs brains.

Last words:
Someone mentioned AI being slow to react when it finds sees player character. How about remove the vision limitations and reaction time and instead make AI do path-finding predictions of each actor that it can actually see (so it can predict when player comes to the line of sight). Should not be too hard since you already have path-finding just have AI simulate your path-finding on the background and predict what path will player take to get in the line of sight. Biggest issue with the game is AI. Make it brutally efficient instead of acting like trained monkey.


Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:26 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:40 am
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
whitebear wrote:
Second bug is related to that as AI wastes brains to empty sites (no simulation team communication).
Fix)
Make same team use same pool of resources for brains and gold. Allow only single brain conquer a site. others are returned to pool.


AFAIK this is intentional. The different AIs on the same teams has different brains, and different brain pools. They cant both defend the same site unless both has brains in the scene. That is why they both place brains in the same area, then both AIs can use their resources to call in reinforcements and spam more bodies. I've done this with my teammate when playing split-screen to avoid only having one player playing.


Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:33 pm
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 9:27 pm
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
You know, just as a curiosity, but has anyone else noticed that a large portion of complaints about CC being too easy, come from people who intentionally design stuff in ways that would normally be illogical, just to throw off the AI?

It's kind of the issue with the game's openness, is that it is naturally easy to exploit. Trying to remove any and all exploits would just pigeon-hole the player into a small set of strategies.

basically, stop building things in ways you know are 100% insta-win, and the game won't be 100% insta-win.


Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:11 pm
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:17 pm
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
IMO in a single player game breaking the game isn't an issue because you're not playing against anybody. Just don't do the thing that breaks the game, lol.


Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:10 am
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Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 10:17 pm
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Post Re: 1.0 Feedback
Might be my bad habit of finding the exploits but still. Lot the issues can be exploited against humans as well there for breaking the game. (crab bombs, suicide skeletons, teleport defence, overkill AA)


Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:58 am
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