You can legitimately tell when people don't want to help you at all, if all they do is insult you personally then say nothing of your work.

Hey guys, thanks for actual advice! much more helpful then insulting somebodies art and proceeding to offer nothing, while making false assumptions about what tools/methods/etc that they used to create said piece.

And Lizard, I'll keep that in mind.

Miggles, I would like to request that you just not comment on my art, I realize that sounds pathetic but your negative comments are not even slightly useful, at all, whatsoever. and you seem inherently determined to just dismiss anything I post as bad. so it's just a waste of space in the thread.

Thanks again to those that actually provided useful feedback. It's quite hard to get better when nobody will tell you what you are doing wrong.

EDIT: gonna try to reshade some things using a brush with a harder edge to it plus some more defined shadows based off of Shook's advice, will return with results in a bit.

FURTHER EDIT: Shook, I use an airbrush tool and layer settings, im working in PaintTool SAI which doesn't have several of the "shortcut" tools Photoshop does. (Need to get CS5 from my uncle, CS6 is a bit hard on my shitty processor with it's massive brush textures and everything). I also just noticed that how I am shading would be more appropriate to dim light or many multidirectional lights.

I'm going to call you a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ right now for numerous reasons.
1. I don't care how hostile I'm being, I'm giving criticism and did, in turn, spark the discussion which causes everyone else to give criticism.
2. Negativity has nothing to do with it, and if you're going to act like Mr. Happy-go-lucky sunshine that reels back at any time anything even slightly unhappy springs forth then you need to take a reality pill and realize: not everyone is nice.
3. Calling your gradient effects "shitty" isn't even rude or nonconstructive because you didn't even try! So to be honest you're looking at me through a darker lense than you should. I WAS giving constructive criticism.
4. You can't deny me of my right to critique your work on an open forum with open right of speech, especially if you're going to specifically post work in an art dump to get feedback. You wanted feedback, and you got it. Just because you didn't get the praise you wanted doesn't mean that it isn't there and that it isn't supposed to help you. I was TRYING to tell you what to do to help make your art better and you threw it out just because I said it wasn't already perfect.

Maybe I am being too aggressive, I don't care. At first I was trying to be nice and tell you what was wrong but you started acting like I was some big bad troll trying to degrade your work, and I got pissed, so when I reacted you seemed to think that's how I was always acting from the first place.

He requested, he can't do ♥♥♥♥ to make you but he asked nicely.

Also, I care.
It makes me sad.
I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

No you uh...
You actually didn't give him any criticism.
All you gave were insults.


Pictured here: No advice

Pictured here: No advice

Saying "stop using gradients" does not count as telling someone how to improve as an artist. You need to explain why and provide alternatives.
Just repeating "you're ♥♥♥♥ and gradients are terrible" does not achieve anything.

Plus there is frankly just no need to be rude about it anyway. Tell someone something calmly and they'll listen, start hurling expletives and they'll (rightly or not) completely disregard what you are saying.
Perhaps I could forgive the hostility if you had actually posted anything of merit but you didn't, the post is all bile and no merit.

Then after that you have the nerve to insult him again under the guise of explaining how you were giving criticism?
If you'd posted this ♥♥♥♥ in my board's WIP topic you'd be enjoying a 48 hour time out.

Oh and as a final note;
"Calling something isn't shitty isn't an insult because it is" is among laziest examples of an excuse I've ever heard.

So Shooks, at it's base something along the lines of this? (Barring obvious shittiness born of just quickly sketching it out)

pretty much just focusing on what is and isn't shaded(lowlights), and what is and isn't direct lit(highlights).
Would probably also look better if I applied a slightly softer edged brush, but I just used a solid one for this quick example.

I can immediately notice that it makes the segments more pronounced, I clearly need to adjust the linework to help emphasize that though.
fixing this would likely be a couple hour project though if I wanted perfection.

Image forbidden.

Gah, ♥♥♥♥ hell one minute.

EDIT: should be fixed.

Miggles, if you were trying to give any genuine advice, it was nigh undetectable under the layers of snark and sarcasm. There's a fine line between giving criticism and being pointlessly rude.
I don't want to see any more posts like that in this thread. Criticism is fine, but don't be a wad about it.

Bombzero, that's a huge step in the right direction, let me tell you that much. Nice job! c:
I actually think it looks really nice with that "completely" hard brush, but please do experiment, because there isn't one single right way of doing art. I eventually came to my cartoony style after a lot of experimenting (and several whacks from the Lizardmallet telling me to get consistent), and likewise am i sure that you'll eventually find a style that both looks and feels right.

Now, a few things i'd like to address with the revamped image, just to keep things from getting TOO sweet (hee hee):
- Contrast. Takes a bit of getting used to (i of all people oughta know that), but increasing the contrast between the shades of a color improves the depth of the image. Be careful not to make it too harsh a contrast, but once again using the example of your hand near a lamp, notice how much darker the shadow actually is, especially if the lamp is the only light source. Also, you see the shadow that objects cast upon one another? It's the same shadow darkening the object itself, so it should be around as dark as the shadow it casts. Relatively speaking, of course, since a shadow appears darker when it falls on a darker object, and vice versa. EXAMPLE SPOILER:


- Light source direction. As chao mentioned, the light in the image is a bit jumbled. It's not actually clear where it's coming from (perhaps you could... ENLIGHTEN me on that?), and generally, you want it to be obvious. Consistent shading adds a whole lot of depth to the image, and apart from that... Well, it just looks right. ANOTHER EXAMPLE SPOILER:


So yeah, i hope it helps!

Disclaimer: I am a horrible full-scale artist so you should probably be cross-referencing with others.

Secondary disclaimer: Yes those examples are made in Paint. It is a good thing for doodling things.

And subsequently does comrade Shook discover that he likes doodling with a large brush size in Paint when it doesn't involve stickmen.

boy, i sure do wish i could even draw a straight line

Metal Chao is my hero, Shook is my idol.
That is all I have to say on this matter.

Straight lines are for people who actually bother to press the shift key.


And thanks Shook, that's some good advice, I understand alot about shading overall concept-wise I just need practice with implementation.

I picked up this shading tutorial from DeviantArt, it might be jumping the gun, but every resource helps.

On that note, shading is my bane.