I'm not saying that Osama is the most perfect man in the world and makes no mistakes, but what America did in the Middle East cannot be justified and they deserve a big slap upside the head.True, I don't have to agree with you because your opinion is supported by utter logical fallacies. I agree, you're entitled to being wrong.

Obviously you have problems accepting other peoples opinions. I'm not continuing this because its just gonna turn into a flame war which i'm really not interested in.
I can understand why you'd say whatever you said but i stand by my opinion and that ain't gonna change no matter how much you stamp your foot.

Good day sir.

Edit: Clearly it was too tempting to stay...

But that's the thing, it's not a matter of opinions. You're trying to objectively paint bin Laden as being evil and saying there's no way of justifying what he did whilst painting America as being good despite the fact that the US government is guilty of doing what you claim makes bin Laden "evil", except on a wider scale. It's totally illogical and hypocritical.

You are my new hero.

EDIT:
And by the way, the country's name is United States of America, not America. America is a continent which has a huge load of other countries, and many of those think exactly the opposite that U.S.A. does.

Out of curiosity, what was Osama's legitimate cause that he was going for? Oh, and I don't think we'd have had an excuse to send our troops over to the Middle East if he hadn't planned the 9/11 attacks. I'm not saying we should be there, but if it weren't for Al-Qaeda flying planes into things, the US would have a lot harder time shipping troops overseas without an excuse and terrorist-fearing citizens backing it toward the beginning.

Oh, and for the record, I don't think people should have been celebrating the whole ordeal, but I don't think people should be pissing on the US for the whole ordeal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

I don't think the Jihad is the only reason.

^



Well yeah, but "America" generally refers to the USA unless preceded by North or South. It's technically more correct to say U.S.A., U.S., United States, etc but it doesn't really make that much of a difference in casual conversation.

@Ocia: That's true, but keep in mind that the "official" reason for invading Iraq was "Saddam Hussein is an evil hurpdederp." 9/11 is really only a PR factor. To my knowledge, it has never been used by the U.S. government as an excuse for invading the Middle East, especially since the attack was carried out by an NGO and not a nation-state.

Fun fact: foreign occupation is a much better predictor of terrorist activity than religious extremism.
Beta_Krogoth: You make me sad.
Standing by your opinion and refusing to change it regardless of new evidence is one of the most pitiable states of mind I can think of, partly because it is self-reinforcing and it actively halts ideological progression of you and people around you.

Jesus. You don't have to get all depressing on me!

I couldn't care less about the conflict between Osama and the US, its the innocent people that got killed that brings me to the conclusion that Osama got what he deserved.

Yes, the US has done many bad things, but the people that died in 9/11 didn't have anything to do with those things did they? Why were they held responsible for the mistakes of idiots with too much power?
They didn't deserved to die and they were murdered to try and deliver a message to a place that can barely understand itself, nevermind other places, other people, other religions. It was a senseless waste of life and i suppose you can could say that makes me a hypocrite for wanting Osamas death, but i'm a eye for an eye kinda guy. Thats the only reason i had.

You guys ready for my ignorant opinion?

Osama Bin Laden deserved to die (IMO) because he killed or orchestrated the death of thousands of innocent citizens that are of my nationality. Bam. Now you can all mercilessly rip me to shreds.

The people who have died as a result of our senseless occupation had nothing to do with any of the retarded politics that led to us being where we are. They didn't deserve to die because they were killed by a nation so overly consumed with greed and lust for power that it has become completely unsustainable on a local, much less a global, scale.

And really, did you miss this link entirely, or are you just incredibly thick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_fo ... 11_attacks

9/11 was not a random act of violence. It was a reactionary effect to American actions. Hell, you could even call 9/11 a retaliatory attack, though that may be going too far. Yet we often portray al Qaeda and Osama as being the great aggressors of this so-called "war on terror".

Tomaster: Just save us all some time by reading pages 9 through 11 of this thread but changing every instance of "Beta_Krogoth" to "Tomaster".

EDIT: Also, don't get me wrong, 9/11 is a tragedy and the people who died as a result of it are not at all responsible for their country's actions which led to their deaths. But they're not special or unique in any way. This kind of senseless violence occurs all over the world on a daily basis and on a larger scale. Americans love making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to 9/11. They could have cared less if it happened to someone else. The point I'm trying to make is that the reason we have so much of this idiotic violence is because many people share Beta and Tom's view: "They killed us, so we'll kill them." God knows how or when this cycle started, on some dusty plain thousands of years ago with two tribes of cavemen arguing over a stick or something, but nobody is taking the initiative to end it, they're just inevitably perpetuating it by trying to be the last guys to get a kill in. THAT'S my problem with this whole "YAY OSAMA IS DEAD" point of view. Not the fact that you grieved for your innocent countrymen slain for reasons that they were not responsible for, or the fact that Osama wasn't exactly the most diplomatic individual, but because that attitude is sickening and most people think of it as being natural.

You really can't take this can you?

1. Insults? really? Calling me thick because i don't agree with you.

Saw your edit, like i said, i'm a eye for an eye, its justice at its most basic level. Thats just where me and you differ.

What do you want me to say? I'm not dismissing your opinion! its got a hell of a lot of sense to it! and a better half of me says you. are. right. But then again, i see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Man and i think to myself, yeah, he got what he deserved.

200 people jumped to their deaths. they jumped. do you not know how many people that is? i don't even want to think about it anymore. Disgusting.

Oh yeah, it doesn't matter to me that it happened to america, like i said, i don't care about all that, its just the waste of life that pisses me off, if it happened to india, i'd still be pissed, don't think that i'm protecting america like a guard dog for the ♥♥♥♥ of it.

You can easily trace the current war all the way back to the wars between monarchs. Probably further, but I don't know that much history.
The wars in the middle east are linked to the proxy wars between the US and Soviet Russia where both sides funded, armed and trained armies there.
The wars between the US and Soviet Russia (more broadly, capitalism and communism) can be traced back to the end of the second world war, when the former allies realised that they were the the two largest super powers left.
The second world war can be traced back to the overly harsh reparations pushed onto the losers of the first world war.
The first world war can be traced back to the intricate network of alliances that meant a single death could drag almost every european power into a disagreement.
This network of alliances can be traced back to the rather large strings of wars between kings, where the amount of death thoroughly imbued each country with the fear of having to withstand a war alone.

*sigh*

@Beta: I feel like if you don't get my point by now, you never will, especially since you can't even decipher what my posts' literal meaning is. I didn't call you thick because you disagree with me, I called you thick because you tried to reiterate a point that had already been proven wrong. I understand perfectly what you're trying to say: You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say. I'll just throw these links out here and let you embarrass yourself further.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/200 ... t_30_years
http://clatl.com/atlanta/how-many-civil ... id=1431775
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Wait, so you're saying we shouldn't have gone after bin Laden? After finally finding him, wasting all those resources, we should've just done nothing? What the hell. I mean, again, I'm not saying we're in the right what with the whole Zerg rush to the Middle East, but can't both sides be doing wrong? Just because we've ♥♥♥♥ up, doesn't mean that Osama bin Laden is some pinnacle of goodness whose death should be mourned because he struck back against his oppressors. The US making mistakes doesn't clear bin Laden's name in any way, he still did something horrible. Hell, if we tried him here he'd get the death sentence, anyway.

EDIT: After reading those links, okay, the US ♥♥♥♥ up really bad. But again, that doesn't mean countries should just let terrorists bomb them, then give them a gift bag for it.