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pseudorastafari
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:53 am Posts: 136 Location: Doing something stupid somewhere
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Re: debate
Don't worry too much with what the thread started off as. Just go with the overall discussion (or whoever you want to reply to). But try not to make it too confusing - and I apoligize for breaking my own rule. If you don't want to hear more rhetoric concerning capitalism and America, just ignore the rest of this post. Tomaster wrote: Hi there! Welcome to a free(not really, but kinda) market society! I've got several problems with this statement. You're mistaking an economic model for some sort of anthropomorphic force, for one thing. Secondly, "capitalism" isn't allowed to take advantage of whoever it can, because despite what you may think, business gets regulated. Thirdly, and I'm not totally sure if I'm right here, but it seems to me like you're suggesting some sort of socialist welfare state that would be better than capitalism? That would never (fully) happen in the US.
Also, you seem to think that the US is the only place with racist ♥♥♥holes or apathetic citizens. Are you really telling me that people in Canada/UK/Switzerland/Cambodia love everyone equally, and every citizen is extremely involved in social and political issues? You seem to have a very skewed worldview. My worldview is only skewed inasmuch as my leftist idealism makes it. No I am not a communist. anthropomorphic force . No. When I say capitalism i mean huge companies which have massive resources at their disposal. When i say "capitalism takes advantage of whoever it can," I mean that these companies attempt to (not necessarily within limits of the law), make as much money as possible from pretty much whoever they can get it from. This is the law - they have a duty to their shareholders to earn as much as they can from their shareholders investment. Yes there are laws which govern what companies can or cannot do. These laws are often in favour of companies. Privatised healthcare within the U.S. is a good example. The republican party is another. As for third world countries, have you ever heard of Colombia (yes it is more a developing country). If you haven't: it's a U.S. puppet. Does this mean it is safe and secure? Don't make me laugh. It is burning, corrupt officials and drug traffickers fighting whatever progress is being attempted. Why is this? It is easier to take it's oil, it's minerals, it's resources, when nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ because they are too busy watching for bullets. If you read my previous posts, I mention north american culture. My skewed worldview was me focussing on the U.S.A. Obviously the world isnt a ♥♥♥♥ sandbox full of children happily sharing their toys. Any culture that mimics American culture probably has many of the same problems, and ones who don't mimic it may be worse. As for a welfare state - give me a while to think about it. Ultimately I would be thinking along the lines of standard worldwide taxes on companies to be distributed wherever it is most needed. Outside observers would be needed to moderate. Tomaster wrote: I don't see any reason that America gets singled out more than other countries, that probably have just as much hypocrisy in their cultures and governments, other than the fact that we're on the world stage more often than most other countries. Basically, I single out America because the things it does have much more affect than what other countries do - It is a superpower, with a large share of the world's wealth.
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Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:42 pm |
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Ociamarru
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:46 pm Posts: 1930
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Re: debate
411570N3 wrote: I'm not exactly clear on the american system for universities or colleges, as you seem to prefer calling them. Would anyone care to explain it to me? What exactly don't you understand about it? What do you want to be explained? I'll answer to the best of my ability.
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Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:37 pm |
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411570N3
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 am Posts: 4074 Location: That quaint little British colony down south
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Re: debate
In Australia the government handles the loans, making a large number of spaces subsidised. Statistically, from my high school, about 0-2 people of about 250 people per year don't go to a university and instead go to a technical school. Is there a similar sort of program in the United States? Around where I grew up, a decent amount of people talked about university as something that was a certainty. From what I hear about the States, college is talked about in a seemingly different matter. I'm interested to know if that's accurate.
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Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:48 am |
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411570N3
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 am Posts: 4074 Location: That quaint little British colony down south
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Re: debate
Well then what would appear to be 'the problem' with the school system in America would be the relative difficulty in attaining tertiary education. My school is a special case though, so you probably shouldn't take our statistics and apply them to the rest of Australia. As for the treatment of teachers, it appears that that's roughly the same across countries and across education levels, based on what you've said and what I know from close relatives.
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Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:50 pm |
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pseudorastafari
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:53 am Posts: 136 Location: Doing something stupid somewhere
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Re: debate
I would just like to add a few things, even though i don't really know much about this subject. This link: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-question-youre-not-asking-should-you-go-to-college/It is a comedy website, but these are legitimate problems. Basically, it talks about the large debts that students incur, and the fact that the rates are rising. Also, what about the illegal immigration boom from south/central america. These immigrants often do not even recieve primary education. I can't say if this is right or not, but in a couple decades, there will be quite a few uneducated Americans.
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Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:03 am |
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Tomaster
DRLGrump
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:26 am Posts: 2037 Location: Jerking off in a corner over by the OT sub-forum
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Re: debate
Good thing I'm going for a medical degree then.
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Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:32 am |
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411570N3
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 am Posts: 4074 Location: That quaint little British colony down south
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Re: debate
Disadvantages for that kind of immigrant are a lot more difficult to deal with due to cultural discrimination against them, but yeah, that's a problem that will definitely need to be addressed.
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Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:30 am |
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pseudorastafari
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:53 am Posts: 136 Location: Doing something stupid somewhere
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Re: debate
Hey thats a good topic! Assuming no one has anything to add,we can change the topic to: Is racism still prevalent in society? That is, to what degree does it exist? In your response, mention what country you're talking about.
Again, feel free to think of a better topic, or continue with the school one.
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Sun May 01, 2011 3:37 am |
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411570N3
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 am Posts: 4074 Location: That quaint little British colony down south
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Re: debate
Well Donald Trump can come out and say he's proud of intruding into someone's privacy in a situation where it is incredibly unwarranted and it's socially acceptable because of the doubts that exist in people's mind's due to that person's appearance and background, so I'd say that's your answer right there. As well as the fact that joking and 'ironic' racism are both fairly socially acceptable while still being harmful and perpetuating the idea of other races being inherently external.
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Sun May 01, 2011 11:23 am |
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Jon
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:34 pm Posts: 143
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Re: debate
pseudorastafari wrote: Hey thats a good topic! Assuming no one has anything to add,we can change the topic to: Is racism still prevalent in society? That is, to what degree does it exist? In your response, mention what country you're talking about.
Again, feel free to think of a better topic, or continue with the school one. Well, normally I don't comment on threads like these, but I actually thought this argument was getting interesting. I'm an American and I can tell you RIGHT AWAY that racism is still very prevalent. Just from anecdotal evidence, I know two people who don't even hide their racism; one person was afraid to go to Europe because of "so many Muslims" and the other didn't like Toronto anymore because of how racially integrated it is now. But that's not all. Apparently, in the United States, 58 percent of Republicans believe Barack Obama was born outside the U.S.. Now that's racism, and I don't know many other countries where such a steaming load of horseshit becomes a mainstream belief. Despite this discrepancy, the United States is still one of the most diverse countries on earth. I think this kind of highlights the hypocrisy and duel standard of many Americans, especially ones from the U.S. They live in a world getting more liberal each day; one where their society is becoming more diverse, where they've elected a black president, and where religion-based laws are getting repealed. Their very livelihoods and consumerism depend on it, and liberalization is how Americans got where they were in the first place. Yet at the same time, so many seemingly want to return to the 1950s where everything was segregated and Communists were arrested and jailed. I think this is the hypocrisy of Americans: they can't have part of the changing world; it's all or nothing.
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Sun May 01, 2011 10:05 pm |
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Ociamarru
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:46 pm Posts: 1930
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Re: debate
From what I've read, it seems that the wage gap between men and women is from a different kind of sexism. It isn't that they make less for the same amount of work, it's just that they tend not to work as often, or in as high-paying jobs, as men. And now that more and more women are taking the initiative and becoming the main source of income for households, the gap is getting smaller as time goes on.
Racism in my area isn't really prevalent; aside from maybe twenty of the rednecks in my school who are genuinely racist, and maybe ten of the Hmongs who hate white people, none of the people in my school are racist, and I don't ever see it outside of school.
Most of the older people in my town have a stigma against Atheists, but again, for the most part, kids don't give a ♥♥♥♥ what your religion is.
The only problem I have with my community is that there's this huge problem with homophobia. Probably a quarter of the people in my school pretty much hate people who aren't straight, then another third are just creeped-out by it. In my experience, homophobia is a lot more prevalent than racism or sexism.
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Sun May 01, 2011 10:39 pm |
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pseudorastafari
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:53 am Posts: 136 Location: Doing something stupid somewhere
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Re: debate
Donald Trump...I read somewhere that 40% of Americans have no idea where he was born. But this is all North American, and if it is any different in whatever country you live in, do tell. Jon wrote: I think this is the hypocrisy of Americans: they can't have part of the changing world; it's all or nothing. Yes, and i think that North Americans have a sense of entitlement to their rights and freedoms. Yet when somebody new is added to the equation, this entitlement is ignored.... I would say that homosexuals are the most repressed social group in North America. The full weight of a culture is against them. They are repressed - why is there such problem with same-sex marriage? Also, take a look at the current marriage laws in the U.S. (gay people are not equal). In my opinion, this is a residue of the power that religion held in people's hearts before the late 20th century. Many religions, including christianity, preach fire and brimstone against homosexuality. As for religion...I don't think that there is a huge problem with bias against it in America. Are you flaming me for being rasta? Do athiests/catholics often spit at the feet of christians? I would instead say that the problem is between two radically different (American and Islamic) cultures clashing. Add to that the fact that we are at a "war on terror" with people who use Islam as their excuse for murder.
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Mon May 02, 2011 4:52 am |
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411570N3
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 am Posts: 4074 Location: That quaint little British colony down south
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Re: debate
Nonsequitorian wrote: Not just that, but sexism is also very prevalent. Last time I checked, a woman gets 78 cents for every dollar a man makes. Why? What purpose does it serve? And though this is true, it is easier to get a job if you are a man. Why? Why would a company hire a man when it's more expensive? What are they trying to prove?! It doesn't mean that the men are more costly; it means that the men are, on average, promoted to higher positions. Ociamarru wrote: Racism in my area isn't really prevalent; aside from maybe twenty of the rednecks in my school who are genuinely racist, and maybe ten of the Hmongs who hate white people, none of the people in my school are racist, and I don't ever see it outside of school. Can you honestly say that they don't hold beliefs involving stereotypes? pseudorastafari wrote: I would say that homosexuals are the most repressed social group in North America. In terms of number or in terms of extent? Have you brought into account the poor, muslims, people with mental illnesses, transgendered people, transsexual people, people with physical disability or the large variety of people of other backgrounds, especially non-English speaking backgrounds? pseudorastafari wrote: Many religions, including christianity, preach fire and brimstone against homosexuality. The extent of clear biblical references to homosexuality is basically a single passage saying not to engage in sodomy in the middle of a large book detailing advice regarding the handling of skin disease, mildew in homes and storage vessels and food preparation. pseudorastafari wrote: As for religion...I don't think that there is a huge problem with bias against it in America. I think the main focus of that would be religions apart from the multiple denominations of Christianity; namely Islam.
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Mon May 02, 2011 8:13 am |
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pseudorastafari
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:53 am Posts: 136 Location: Doing something stupid somewhere
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Re: debate
I guess homosexuals should be "one of the most suppressed social groups in North America." Forgive me I was tired and my specificness was dead. *still tired Lol i love your take on the bible. But whether or not there is only a minscule portion diverted to homosexuality, it is still a crime in the eyes of deeply religious people. Priests are good at using non-explicit portions of the bible to represent their views - adam and eve are a prime example in this case. There may not be much basis for it in the bible, but since when has that stopped the church? 44% of religious americans believe homosexuality is wrong. Well I stand corrected about religion. 92% of Americans believe in god, and 70% believe that other religions may lead to eternal life. That means 28% of Americans either detest Islam or vice versa - approximately 85 million people. WHAT A HUGE ♥♥♥♥ NUMBER. http://www.scribd.com/doc/54298794/Pew-survey-21-of-atheists-believe-in-God
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Tue May 03, 2011 3:36 am |
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Ociamarru
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:46 pm Posts: 1930
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Re: debate
Uh...I looked at the title and read no further. 21% of Atheists believe in a deity? That's utter bull♥♥♥♥, because Atheism is the acknowledgement that we came about through natural means. Well, that's how I define it, and it'll change from person to person, but no Atheist believes in any deities; maybe they meant Agnostic, but whatever.
How is it that you find that 28% of people either love or detest Islam, that makes no sense.
Oh, and why did you even bring that thing into this topic? What does Atheism have to do with any of this?
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Tue May 03, 2011 3:48 am |
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