We are butthurt about the spider part because crabs in cortex command is like TFSM in real life.

actually, I'm pretty butthurt about the 'defending a fortress gameplay mechanics suck and noone likes them'

Tower defense
Every Real time strategy
almost every turn based strategy
Most first person shooters
Dwarf fortress

ALL OF WHICH HAVE A MAJOR MECHANIC BUILT AROUND DEFENDING A BASE/FORT AGAINST HOARDS OF ENEMIES AND ARE WILDLY POPULAR WORLD WIDE.



also

above ground mechanic vs below ground mechanic? was this guy snorting raw opium?

ITS THE SAME MECHANIC, Walk around, occasionally fly, and shoot things. Crouch occasionally to dodge fire, sometimes fly to avoid fire. Throw grenades over lumps and into holes, to kill enemies you do not have direct line of sight. above ground = below ground.

OP needs to DIAF and GTFO. even I don't start arguments/flame wars this long except for that one weapon i made that got a duplicate thread because people are retarded and got 12+ people temp-banned

CRY MORE MILES CRY MORE

If this is napalm from rohitab, I'm amazed. If not, ignore that.

I like where you're going somewhat OP, however I think criticism like this would be better placed once the game's actual mechanics are in a state where they work (read: you can walk). I understand that this is one of your gripes, as it is most of ours, however I don't think any of us actually know what CC would be like with proper ground movement yet. If CC actors could move similarly to soldat etc actors (with less wheel but equivalent actually getting somewhere) and the fortress style gameplay still felt weak (I don't think it would), then this would be viable.
I don't think digging for gold should be removed, however prom and data have both said that there will be artifacts (like the control chip in zombie cave) that would provide alternative, superior income. digging gold out is more of a "Crap I need another dude" thing for me anyway, You shouldn't spend much time doing it.

It was actually just friendly advice to help him avoid flaming - but you can read into it if you like.

Maybe I should expand more on why I think fortress sucks so you can catch my drift. It is not so much the core idea of fortress gameplay, I'm perfectly fine with that and agree that it can be fun. But in cortex command the fortress/bunker is where gameplay fun goes to die in my opinion. At least currently.

Endless labyrinths of winded corridors occupying haft the map. The corridors look all the same (which is to say boring) and they play the same (which is to say crappy).
It doesn't really help gameplay that the corridors are so narrow that you can barely fit another caracter's head in between the size of your own characters and the ceiling.
The characters get stuck on every tiny scrappile and every little corner that those corridors have to offer. Inside those corridors you spend 10% fighting against the enemy and 90% fighting against pixels. This is not what I consider to be fun gameplay. I would agree when you say you get better at it with time but getting better at dealing with flaws in gameplay is not a skill that a player should be required to learn in order to enjoy the game. To put it in a nutshell those narrow corridors just annoy the crap out of me.

And have you ever tried to squeeze two of your own characters past one another in one of those corridors? It's madness I say!
The corridors should have been at least 50% bigger from the get-go.


And the same goes for tunnels produced by digging tools, gameplay gets super frustrating once you leave the open surface.
That is my actual critique in a nutshell and that's why I proposed to move the gameplay into those areas where there is ACTUALLY SOME ROOM FOR DYNAMIC COMBAT.
I'm not shitting all over CC guys, I find the gameplay that's taking place in the open where you got some room to navigate deeply satisfying and fun.

Which is why I proposed a gameplay change that would ensure that the majority of combat takes place where there is some acutal room for it - out in the open.



That is what I meant when I tried to differentiate between "above ground" and "below ground".
And I think a map where the below ground portion of the map isn't just dirt that you need to dig through but actually some sort of cave where you can navigate and do satisfying combat would be much more fun to play. Think of a map that's looks like the tutorial mission above and zombie cave below with occasional, small bunkers scattered at regular invervals to mix things up. Is that really such a horrible idea to try out or even suggest?

Uh, you can make that super easy. Just go to your scene editor, take the zombie cave, and plunk it into horiz land and tell us how it is.

Your ideas would take less time to actually test than to write these big speeches.

Eh, I could poke holes all through that post, but I don't feel like it anymore.

Napalms basically saying that people don't like playing games that you have to be skilled in order to play. I guess that it was just a huge fluke people liked; COD 1 - 6, Halo 1 - 3, any other FPS, any RTS, any game, Cortex Command.

You know Napalm, what the hell do you expect when you send troops down a hallway?
The hallway is a narrow space, and makes it hard for anyone survive in, thus making it easier to attaack/defend.
Those piles, they usually get reduced to nothing very quickly, even if you have a pistol.
These labyrinths are destructible, so you can blow a hole through a wall, drastically changing the whole game.
If you want to fit two men around around each other, there are always places where the bunker branches off ( so do the little ant riddle ) .
Those little piles can be hidden behind, and crawled over, even though a little fart can reduce it's size drastically.

Oh, and about the dug tunnels, totally up to you to decide if comfortableness is better than getting to your prime directive. ( I make them 1.5 blocks tall, with concrete floors, doesn't seem hard to navigate )

Oh, and if you hate the current missions, you will hate the latter, like an angered god, or like when grif and Thor were less experienced at bombing threads.

I've only read the first page and a bit of the last one, and I see the conversation has not evolved.

I am going to state my opinion to the first post, sorry if things have already been resolved.


If you play the tutorial campaign mission you will see that you cant just dump your crap wherever you want, so Data is probably planning to implement something like that into the rest of the campaign missions.

Fortress gameplay can be very fun depending on your opinion. I love making an impenetrable fortress and sending some robots with revolver cannons out to kill all who oppose me. I, personally, find it very fun to shoot a metal block straight into the head of an enemy and have them explode into a shower of gore.

The AI does seem to flood your base with stupid AI, but think of it this way: The actual dummies, clones, or what have you aren't probably all that smart. I also imagine the world of CC being very chaotic, many new bunkers, and constant assaults, all the time. I think Bunkers would never last all that long.

Fighting over territory? YES YES YES! I like this a lot, and it should be a mode of play, since I still enjoy the 'shower your crap over everything' gameplay, and this would be a nice element to be able to add to it all. Outposts? Yes. Frontlines? Yes. I honestly would have much more fun with this. I've been playing CnC 4 beta lately and it uses a lot of the territory system. I've gotta tell ya, its a blast.

The AI needs to be improved. This is not Super Mario Bros. This is (comparable to) an RTS. How fun would it be if Starcraft had stupid AI? Not at all.

Don't get rid of gold digging. Why eliminate options? Sometimes when you need some extra cash after some intense play you'll want to go and actively mine instead of waiting in your bunker for your allowance.

Specialized units? Could work. Again, why eliminate possibilities? Keep diggers in there.

Fog of war is being implemented. You'll see it in some older updates. I personally would not like fog of war, depending on how restrictive it will be. I like being able to see whats going on.

Build stuff? Adds more menus. Searching through menus, waiting for stuff to build, its all stuff that detracts from gameplay. As far as little turret upgrades, they exist in the form of mods. They are possible, but you need to put them in before the game starts, or with some other mod tool.

Perhaps not indestructible. Much more resistant? Definitely. Building a nice bunker then having the AI just give up and start digging can be really frustrating.

Perhaps have bunkers that reach into the sky and ground as giant dividers to force player and AI to face off?

I agree, weapons should rape terrain less. If you take your time you can dig through anything with a good gun.

Debris outside disintegrating? No! Debris inside bunkers? Maybe. Perhaps a cleaner bot?

I have to agree with all the points Crazymlc made. A lot of the things napalm said in the OP were good ideas, some of which are already being implemented in the coming builds, other things just completely destroy the whole point of the game, and what it was built for. Then Napalm started flaming everyone. End of story, Good Game chaps.

After reading the rest of the thread I have to say you're all being really nit-picky and taking things a bit too personal.


Grammar, vocabulary, whatever, it isn't worth debating over, Contrary. There is nothing to prove.

Napalm, you sound sort of condescending. I assure you, nobody plays the game days on end trying to figure out the best strategy to win a map.

You can't predict the opinions of other people off of your own.

Perhaps if you and Contrary could make amends this could resume to an intelligent discussion.


edit: bah spelling error.

It's not grammar or vocabulary. As you said, he sounds condescending, and uses fallacious arguments to bully people to his way of thinking.

Edit: And it's really funny that you point out one of his failings after slapping me on the hand for doing that properly.

Hah, well, then its referring to everyone else who is complaining about the spider crap now.
That last one I referred to in my post was rather bad, but with your posts you were quoting the whole thing and attacking every little comment. I find that nit-picky.

To be honest, most of the stuff suggested in the OP is being worked on or planned by Data. But for the rest of the idea(s), it seems like it's better to implement them as game modes.

"Joe Average" means everyone.