That's why I posted my suggested plan to the private channels and asked the leaders of the community what they think. If you want to call someone out, call on them: I haven't gotten any suggestions for improvements or alternate routes yet (though I did just post it a day ago).

Once a plan is settled on, that we think will work for everyone, I'll post it publicly for further discussion.

So what happens if we all decide we don't like "happy positive" and there's one guy who does?

Oh, quick quip.So basically, you're asking who among the moderation staff was displeased by the direction of the discussion, or who trusts a non-mod enough to let them know what's going on. That kinda was your answer, in a way.

Let me just say I have been on these forums for a long time.
Things aren't quite as bad as they may seem.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Data wants this to be a positive community, so he has the bottom line on that. From previous conversations I'm going to guess that - in that unlikely scenario - we'd probably just nuke and pave, start from scratch. I really want to avoid that though.

I'm planning contingencies for the "Good Ol Boys" who want to keep everything the way they are now - letting them keep #DRLChat for example, and simply pointing the 'new' (and public) IRC channel to something else. Maybe you can have a secret forum or something too, if you really want it.

I'm not really sure what direction to go, though. I have a general idea, and I'm discussing it with the community leaders. There'll be plenty of time for discussion of the fine details later.

Edit:


Yeah, the problem is that the majority of the forum is made up by people that like the way things have been going for a long time. New users are being scared away, and that has to change - for the good of the game.

I'm with you, too - I'm the type that likes long established communities, I like the inside jokes and the established status quos. I'm a reader of 4chan and poster to SA. I know how these things work, and I know that simply isn't the type of community Data wants.

"Nuke and pave"?
You'd get rid of everything the people on these boards have accomplished just because they're not ass-kissers who actually try to convince people that bad mods are detrimental to the community?
When was the last time you learned something by having someone calmly sit next to you and explain what you did wrong?
A sergeant won't simply tell his recruits: "Um, guys, you kind of screwed up last time. Could you please do better tomorrow?", because "ALLRIGHT, MAGGOTS! EXTRA ASSAULT COURSE RUN-THROUGHS UNTIL YOU CAN DO'EM IN YOUR SLEEP!" tends to work much better.

To be honest a complete nuke of all threads wouldn't be all that bad if we just get some early warning to backup important OPs so they can be reposted fairly quickly

So... you're telling me... Data wants bad mods on the forums?

Not everyone's first mod is a total success. Flaming is not a better solution, especially when most users don't come back.

Harsh criticism is the only kind that works, unfortunately. Would Data have a hugely populated forum filled with horrendous mods and "Lolollololo X p05t3d t3h m0s7 l337 M0D 3V3R!!!1!!1111!111" posts? Or a forum filled with people who aren't discouraged by the fact that they failed once, and do their best to improve?
Case in point, lafe. We all agree that his mods aren't very good. BUT HE IS IMPROVING. Do you think that's because of the people who told him "Good work!", or the constant stream of bashes his sprites (in particular) are met with?

I'd say give them a chance to improve themselves before you give the harsh criticism.

No, no it isn't. It's not unlikely that people will listen to you if you tell them what's wrong without being a jackass about it. For example: "Your sprites are ♥♥♥♥ terrible" and "Your sprites are pretty bad". Both convey the same point, but in substantially different tones. I'm all for blunt criticism, but there's no need to break their faces with it, so to say. Unlike what your post suggests, there IS a middleground between spikedmace-criticism and false praise. A lot of middleground.

E: ninjad.

If you want to talk about mod making in particular, there is a very broad gap between:

"Hey! I really liked your sprites but your LUA scripting is really bad. You should take a look at the wiki, or even this thread [link] that does the same thing you were trying to do, but with less lag. As it is your mod is unusable"

and

"OMG WTF SUUUUUCK GO HOME NEWB"

There's a million shades of gray in between, some of which are acceptable in my books, some aren't.

I'm more lenient on modder rules anyway - the "general public" we are trying to look pretty for isn't going to dive into the LUA scripting threads right away.

I agree, in a case like that, we should calmly point out flaws, but we shouldn't punish those who pick on a bad second mod (with the same or more flaws as the first), or a plain old bullet sprayer released as a "mod".
[edit] Wrong example. My bad.

And if you look at those threads, you'll notice that we are a little more tolerant.