View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:39 am



Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post] 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:18 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Sacramento, CA
Reply with quote
Post A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Granted I haven't been around long at all compared to a good lot of you here, I've still put in a fair share of hours into the game. It was this in fact that led me to think...has anybody here that plays game actually given it an appraisal, aside from just "Gun x sucks, Actor Y bugs under these conditions, absolutely love Scene Z" ?
And so when I started playing B23 I do so with a mindset for review. And I'm not planning to bash anything, so get that out of your system Mr. :P

It is also worth noting I got together with a few friends to play this as well; some had played it before and loved it (some bought it), some were good at games but had never played it, and some weren't big on gaming but didn't oppose it either.

Campaign:
Tutorial
Now while we may not give the tutorial mission much thought after plundering it many-a-times, it's still formed rather well. In my opinion one of the best part is it's not like linear tutorials of most games, where you if you miss a detail you're left wondering what secret you missed out on. I like that you can go back and be informed again about functions of the game. This was of particular use to my friend, Katie, who never really messes around with games much. And while she did not succeed in the mission, it still gave her a great idea of what the game was all about, and how it functioned.

Zombie cave
Obviously an amusing mission...and for those who haven't seen it, check this out. Now again for somebody who is new to the game, this mission can be quick tricky; my friend Katie left her brain up on a rock "to stay safe from the zombies" only to get chewed up by the Ronin. On my first run through though I practically turned the outer area into a maximum security prison that I kept my brain in, and I'd tunneled my brain deep into the ground. But one thing this difference led me to think, as well as people on these missions posting "Mission Challenge" threads is that...

It would be nice if the campaign had a difficulty selection to it. Something to the degree that the harder it gets, the less initial funding you are provided, and perhaps on the hardest setting you only get what you are provided at the start of the mission.

Dummy Assault
This mission took me a couple of tries, I'll admit. Partly for the fact though that I did not expect (what I consider) a gimmick to be used against me: an endless number of enemies. I can see the challenge that would obviously arise from it...and I also noticed that only so many of them are out at a given time. I still found it a bit...tasteless, though. But I understand the desire, the need to create pressure and urgency, which it did. :P

So overall that mission was a little challenging, but fun to run through.

Maginot
I don't like with this mission that you can't really prepare, in any way (even making presets), for the attack. Nor do you have the time to gather resources, but I can see that is the intent of the mission. I like how the mission is fairly intense and constantly puts pressure on you, but more than anything I love making the escape at the end. That is probably my favorite scenario in all of CC. However I find that my escape is almost always hindered...not by my lack of firepower, not by the superiority of the enemy's numbers...but because my brain cannot climb ladders effectively, and sticks to them like velcro. And there are ladders in nearly every tunnel! If you ask me I think they should be removed, since a quick thrust or two from a jetpack, which nearly all actors come with, works even better. Still, I have a lot of fun with the mission.

First Signs
Now to me, this mission kind of came off as more of a demo for some things that you could do with Lua. However when B23 came out this was the first mission I tried, and I nearly fudged my pants when I first saw that mother crab jump out! More so because it jumped so close to me it knocked the assault rifle out of my hand and crushed it; I had to order a weapon while frantically evading the beast. Of course after that the rest is easy as pie, and the end of the mission is a bit vague. I thought it would open another mission? Perhaps in later builds.

Overall Campaign Rating: 8 out of 10
The missions were fairly varied, fairly challenging, and fairly surprising in some aspects overall. I know, I know, there is more to come. As of now while the campaign missions, in both numbers and each mission's length, feel small, there is still an immense amount of fun to be had. Especially when you start trying to tackle the missions from every odd angle you can think of.

Multiplayer:
Now of course going through every map for multiplayer would be ridiculous...so rather than that, the approach I'd prefer to take is to mention general aspects about what was good or bad in the maps, multiplayer as a function itself, and how it handled when playing with friends.

Maps
I like that there's a nice variety as far as what's available out there. However many of them, some vertically but most horizontally, feel very small. Rock valley is a good example of this; but I point it out because it seems to be a trend of many of the maps. To the contrary, one map I am becoming particularly fond of is Zone 21. The bottom bunker covers a little more of the map than I'd prefer...but it's still quite nice. It's like an upgrade from the older version of Grasslands; maps that already have segments of bunkers scattered around are excellent when playing with a friend, I find.

Multiplayer
Now again, as with campaign, I realize the game is not complete. Yes yes, I know I can change these things in the .ini . But I don't want to have to go back and forth every time I want to change them. These would be nice things to have readily accessible. Multiplayer would also benefit if there were some settings which could be altered in this fashion by the player within the skirmish menu. Such as:
-Default starting gold
-Maximum number of units controllable (not counting craft)
-Time limit
-Victory conditions (all units dead, brain-dead, survive until time limit is over, most kills/gold within time limit)

Victory Conditions
Now this one I'd say is more important than the aforementioned. It would be nice to have various modes in skirmish, for both playing alone and with friends, than just deathmatch / endless CPU slaughter. I mentioned a few simple ideas for this: all units dead, brain-dead, survive until time limit is over, most kills/gold within time limit. But it'd also be interesting to have other modes...I can't recall who (so feel free to take credit), but I know one person here made a campaign map for a King of the Hill mode which is a great idea. Something like that in skirmish, where a random spot on the map is marked as the hill would be fun. Another mode I think would be interesting would be a gold-rush mode, where you're trying to attain some amount of gold before your opponent does; do you invest in digging? Or do you spend gold on weapons and troops to sabotage your opponent? It'd just be nice to have different challenges for yourself as an alternative to the play-until-bored-or-otherwise CPU slaughter-fest. That was another thing; the first thing my friends who were new to the game asked about the skirmish mode was, "How do you win?" And neither of them liked hearing "You can't"

Playing with Friends
This is where CC both shines, and falters.
The good:
-It's fun as hell when playing with people who are interested in the game and are decently skilled at it.
-You can all fight the computer together (which is awesomely fun with that Zombie mod! (again, take credit as you will))!
-I myself like watching people progress through the learning curve of the game; their load-outs become more versatile, their bunkers more devious and creative, and their attacks more coordinated.

The bad:
-One issue I found with multiplayer is that the gamepad cannot select the "go-to" feature from the wheel menu.
-Also as mentioned, a good chunk of the game is time spent in the buy-menu.
-In multiplayer digging can muddle-down the gameplay. "Nope sorry, you have to take a 5 minute break from the game to dig gold for our team" Yes, I know there are gold generator mods, but I wanted to stick with the vanilla material as much as possible. It would be convenient if you could set go-to points in the dirt and activating the digging AI would make them dig to each location.
-Ability to drop any quantity of anything anywhere in the map; once people figure out they can do this, it is abused no matter what the circumstances.

Overall Multiplayer/Skirmish Rating: 7 out of 10
There's a lot of decent maps, and a few good maps. However skirmish should have something aside (or at least variants) from the modes of fight-the-cpu-forever, fight-the-cpu-forever-with-friends, and fight-your-friends modes. The gamepad not being able to string units together becomes a severe disadvantage when things pick up. Also more important than any improvement to the sentry AI, would be making the Gold-Digging AI operate as intended.


General/Miscellaneous:
Also in general, I find the weapons, tools, bombs, and actors in this latest build to be superbly balanced and varied. No longer is the YAK a seemingly reskinned gatling gun, no longer does the flammer make really loud/irritating noise when it fires, nor are the dummies the cute army they once were. I like the changes made to all the weapons and actors. The robots are now a little tougher, a little more robot-like. The laser-rifle is no longer a kill-everything-in-line-of-sight-in-a-single-clip weapon. No longer need dropships fear ground-troops, as they can now retaliate with awesome napalm payloads (bombs were a GREAT idea). Armored troops are now an imposing force on the battlefield.

Although in this regard, one thing I find amusing is the scripting for the spikes in the mauler...my guess is that they have some function scripted so that their velocity slows over time to a set level. Because if you shoot the gun up in the air, the once fearsome spikes come down as softly as snow-flakes. :D

In any case...fantastic job on making each weapon, tool, and actor more unique and balanced. I really liked the overhaul!

My own thoughts/suggestions for CC:
Now yes, feel free to stop reading here if you wish. :P
However, I would like to share some ideas which I think would drastically enhance, balance, and improve the game to drastic degrees.

Order Presence
Now of course when you play by yourself, it's fun ordering stuff straight down over the AI whether it be the delivery of actual bombs from a dropship, or just loading a drop-crate full of bombs and skuttling it over opponents. But when you play with other people this can be quite detrimental to game play. Yes yes, "You can go by the honor system and agree not to do that" but I think it would do well, both because of this aspect, and to balance gameplay, to introduce something I dub Order Presence. Quite simply, if you are going to order something at a location, you must have presence there. To put it literally: you can only order in craft within a range determined by, and in proximity, to the location of units under your command. Whether it be your very own brain, an expendable clone trooper, or a lowly crab. This could also give rise to units which would serve solely to increase this range...maybe something like a Comsat tower? Or perhaps a troop with a radio? This way you can't just order down an entire army directly on top of your enemy's base: first you must assault, establish yourself, and then you can call in the cavalry. I think this would serve both to limit players exploiting drop-bombs, and also balance out the gameplay a little more.

Factions
Now as it stands there's not really any point to having separate factions, save for having an excuse for people to be fighting each other in the campaign. I think multiplayer would benefit if players had to choose a faction to play as during the skirmish. Have it so players have to match their taste and preference in play-style and weapons to some given faction. It detracts a little from the game when there's no adversity to combating your opponent; I played with a friend where for him was his first time playing, but he was good at games. His strategy was to just buy whatever I bought because he knew it'd be good. Why not realize the rivalry of the Coalition and Ronin? The Dummies against all other organics [and maybe even give the robots their own faction]? It would bring strategy to multiplayer rather than just tactics, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Your enemy is coalition? Harass their digging-units, because a blow to the coalition's wallet will keep their weapon tech. at your level.
Fighting Ronin? Use weapons they'll have difficulty combating such as grenade launchers, flamers, and maulers.
Dummy invasion? Best dig some pits in front of your base to keep the Dreadnaughts out.
Perhaps trade-star itself could be a faction, using just the vanilla content

Buy Menu Simplification
Now this one I think is really important. Whether it be my friend Katie, who is not an avid gamer, my friend Austin (the guy who bought whatever I bought), or playing with 3 other friends that love this game, the buy menu is problematic. It is cluttered; having every item and faction listed means the lists are displayed incredibly small, and preparing a load-out is a little convoluted. By convoluted I mean, nowhere are you told that in order to equip an actor with an item, you must place the actor in the load-out first followed by the item. And let's say you make a preset right? Two robots, each with a vanilla shotgun (one of my fav. combos). But what happens if you want to modify it so they have pistols and shields? Can you just take out the weapons and replace them with new items? Nope. You have to start over the entire thing from the first actor in the ship (and doing this with a gamepad is, to put it lightly, tiresome).

This is also a positive aspect I think modifying the factions would bring in, is a drastic reduction in the clutter of the load-out.
But aside from that, I think the buy menu could benefit extremely well from some different mechanics, and constraints. The particular constraint: have it so that craft have a limited number of occupants they can carry [ex. Dropships carry 2, Rockets carry 2, Drop crates carry 1]. Not only does this prevent abuse of load-outs (e.g. crab-bombs), but also opens the opportunity to make the buy menu simplified. I took a little time in paint (over 9000 hours etc) to demonstrate just how I think a stream-lined buy menu under these changes could turn out.

So, rather than having these long lists of every actor, every weapon, as it currently is...
Image

The use of factions, and a constraints on the craft capacity, could make it something like this...
Image

Now that's just an idea for how it could look...but regardless, just look at how much area taken up by the buy menu you could potentially discard! Now I don't know how many of you have tried playing this with more than two people but at that point the buy menu nearly takes up your entire screen, you have to hunt through these lists, if you want to alter any preset or otherwise you have to sit there knocking out every item and then putting it all back in, and so on. You spend at least as much time rummaging through the buy menu as you do playing the actual game. My friends Austin and Katie were both daunted by the amount of content in the buy menu; so much so for Austin that he just gave up.

One other thing, while not directly in the buy-menu but certainly related to it, is the actual action of ordering the craft. As I mentioned earlier, a favorite and simple load out of mine is two robots, each with a vanilla shotty. But when I want to bring in a standing-army, or reinforce my base before a heavy-attack, it is time-consuming to do. I have to open the buy menu, hunt down the buy-button, and place a ship. Open the buy menu, hunt down the button, place the ship. I think it'd be a great convenience if we could more readily make simple-orders en mass. For example, how about if we're in the mode for placing the craft delivery point, we can hold down shift while clicking, and call down several drops of the same order in a row? Or simultaneously? Something like this would be great.



The End!
If you made it this far thanks for reading! Please share your thoughts, whether about this post, or about how you felt with this latest build of CC! :)


Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:27 pm
Profile
REAL AMERICAN HERO
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:25 pm
Posts: 5655
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Well written post, though many of your points are on the official to-do list.

As far as hunting down the buy button, us keyboard players have it easy; double tap right and you're always there.


Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:35 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:46 am
Posts: 1765
Location: ..............
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Wait......
There's an escape sequence in Maginot?


Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:40 pm
Profile

Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Florida
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Roy-G-Biv wrote:
Wait......
There's an escape sequence in Maginot?

Yeah, when the dummies overpower you and enter the base you need to make your way to the top of the base and escape.


Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:42 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:46 am
Posts: 1765
Location: ..............
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Shard wrote:
Roy-G-Biv wrote:
Wait......
There's an escape sequence in Maginot?

Yeah, when the dummies overpower you and enter the base you need to make your way to the top of the base and escape.

Just finished it.

I thought Maginot was an endless defend the base mission, at least, until the last minutes of it.


Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:11 pm
Profile
REAL AMERICAN HERO
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:25 pm
Posts: 5655
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
It was until this build.


Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:13 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:02 pm
Posts: 1639
Location: Somewhere. Nowhere.
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
tons0phun wrote:
I think it'd be a great convenience if we could more readily make simple-orders en mass.

I thought it would be alot easier to order troops if, instead of automatically switching back to a unit, it just switches to another drop arrow thing, and you'd need to press a button to switch back.

I suck at explaining these things, but you understand what I mean.


Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:40 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 2982
Location: Texas
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
I like your buy menu idea.


Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:49 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:18 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Sacramento, CA
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
whitty wrote:
I like your buy menu idea.


Thanks...I was just thinking it'd be a lot more functional if it was stream-lined in some way or another. Because right now it feels as though half of the tutorial mission should cover buy-menu mechanics. :cry:


Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:30 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:50 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Your base.
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Although time consuming :P the presentation and work put into this post is impressive.

I agree with you with pretty much every thing, I myself also play 3 player, 1 gamepad, 2 people on the keyboard and the buy menu is tiresome.

Although like Grif said i've also noticed alot of the points you've said to be said to be added to the offical game anyhow in later updates, yet still good job to you sir.


Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:36 am
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: England
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
Image
I think this is a little better than what you were proposing, but I think that it shouldn't be so small, I only ever play single player really* so IMO it should stretch to the bottom. Limit is just a recommended limit, read from the (new "Limit" variable from the) ini file of the craft... if you go over the limit by less than 500 the text "Limit XXXXKg" could go orange then if you go over by more than 500 the text could go red. (this would require 2 new versions of the font images, or could be done with allegro using the put pixel function and replacing any of the white pixels in that area with orange/red one's, it's a small area so it shouldn't be that CPU intensive).

oh and it's exactly 1/4 of the original (640*480) screen size.


*any time my friends play I say something like "don't pick AAL stuff because they are too overpowered" (old ALL version) or tell them not to pick some experimental weapon and they are like "HUR DE DURR DURR!" and pick it anyway because they don't realise that it's more fun when it's a challenge or crash the game.


Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:09 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:18 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Sacramento, CA
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
robolee wrote:
I think this is a little better than what you were proposing...


With sort of a tabular or fold-out browsing eh? I like how that looks too.
Any way it goes, I just hope the process of arranging load-outs will be a little quicker/easier to do.



And aside from that,
tons0phun wrote:
My friends Austin and Katie were both daunted by the amount of content in the buy menu; so much so for Austin that he just gave up.


So I hung out with my friend Austin again yesterday. I was trying to get him to give CC another go and he said, "Oh ya I never disliked the game by any means. There's just so much information to take in about it, and the buy menu is a bit confusing..." The first time he tried to play it he wanted to just jump straight into skirmish because he felt that with his experience in games, he'd just figure it out. This time however (and since we'd just gotten food) I offered him to watch me give a quick demo.

So I chose the tutorial level.
Went along with the tutorial each step of the way (even the obstacle course!) while tastefully adding things on like using the go-to command to link units. Showed him a few oddities about the buy-menu, and then also showed him how a rocket craft stuffed with bombs also substitutes for a missile. :D

And BAM, he felt rejuvenated about playing again. We went to skirmish mode, and from there I gave him a tutorial of a sorts on bunker building; mainly focused on bunker bits/modules/systems/tut. parts, and also showed him a few bunker setups he could use for defense. He started to go creatively-nuts with it, which was great to watch! We then played the crap out of CC until I had to cut out later on.

But imagine to my surprise and glee when I'm out at home and he gives me a call,
"Yeah hey Dan what's up? Uhm...so where did you get all those mods for the game?"
"What? Oh, I got them off of the forums...why?"
"Oh, well I went and bought Cortex Command, haha, I'm just obsessed with building crazy-ass bunkers"
"Nice! Okay, well from the main page go to Fan Forums, and look under Mod Releases...you'll probably have to dig through a bit, but you'll find things you'll like, I'm sure."
"Oh cool, thanks man."
"Oh ya...and Austin?"
"Ya?"
"When you're looking for things in the forums, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION"
"Uh...o-kay" O_o
"OkHaveFunByeNow" :idea:

And that's what I was trying to get at when I said the tutorial level is excellent. Made my friend go from intimidated by the sheer amount of content to OMG-I-must-use-and-blow-up-everything-at-least-once. :P


Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:01 pm
Profile
REAL AMERICAN HERO
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:25 pm
Posts: 5655
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
The only thing with the tutorial mission is the number of people who fail it the first time.

There's no indication that you can order in reinforcements. It's slightly misleading.


Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:15 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:20 am
Posts: 4772
Location: Good news everyone!
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
robolee wrote:
Image

Nice. I like that.
But why make it a small rectangle in the corner of the screen?
It's nice to be able to see everything on the list at once.
But it is good that it can shrink well, for multiplayer.


Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:27 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: England
Reply with quote
Post Re: A General Review of CC, and other thoughts. [Big Post]
CrazyMLC wrote:
robolee wrote:
Image

Nice. I like that.
But why make it a small rectangle in the corner of the screen?
It's nice to be able to see everything on the list at once.
But it is good that it can shrink well, for multiplayer.


That is what I said in my post, I don't see why it should be shrunken, the size is pretty much ok as it is, but one of the OPs gripes was that it's too long so I made it smaller to compensate for his needs.


Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:33 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.
[ Time : 0.052s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]