[16:47:44]   <Grif>   hey um datarealms is getting kind of impatient on the whole b21 thing
[16:47:53]   <Grif>   anything you can say?
[16:47:59]   <ArneDraw>   I'm testing it now
[16:48:09]   <Grif>   :awesome:

[16:48:31]   <ArneDraw>   there's a new editor of some sort

[16:50:30]   <Grif>   so data IS alive, then?
[16:50:52]   <ArneDraw>   yeah he just game me a setup for the new build

[17:10:49]   <ArneDraw>   I'm getting a iMac in a few days
[17:11:04]   <ArneDraw>   we're doing a mac port too, I think
[17:11:14]   <Grif>   yeah
[17:11:17]   <Grif>   according to the devlog
[17:11:29]   <ArneDraw>   I think I can rebuild my CC tools in the mac compiler of BMX too
[17:11:36]   <ArneDraw>   Tools
[17:11:55]   <ArneDraw>   not sure about the file writing
[17:12:06]   <ArneDraw>   is mac the same bit order as PC now?
[17:12:11]   <ArneDraw>   msb-lsb?

[17:11:59]   <Grif>   any idea on when we can expect b21?
[17:13:06]   <ArneDraw>   Grif, no clue actually, but we got IGF real soon
[17:13:20]   <Grif>   fair enough
[17:13:29]   <Grif>   it's nice to know data's still alive, anyways
[17:13:30]   <ArneDraw>   That's up to Data really
[17:13:52]   <ArneDraw>   he's been boasting about the LUA stuff recently
[17:13:57]   <ArneDraw>   has he devlogged that?
[17:14:12]   <ArneDraw>   apparently it's pretty neat
[17:14:19]   <Grif>   he's said some stuff about lua
[17:14:26]   <Grif>   but no specific examples, really
[17:16:29]   <ArneDraw>   I just tried out the new build, and promptly died

[17:18:25]   <ArneDraw>   Modders are gonna go nuts with the LUA stuff
[17:19:21]   <ArneDraw>   and probably do stuff they're not 'supposed to', but that's the whole idea with CC I guess, breaking it

[17:24:28]   <ArneDraw>   cool... I have a lot of old sprites which haven't been revealed too... mostly weapons though
[17:24:38]   <ArneDraw>   I really should be doing some new actors
[17:24:43]   <ArneDraw>   like a zombie
[17:24:50]   <Grif>   that'd be interesting
[17:24:56]   <ArneDraw>   a lot of people have requested zombie survivial scenarios
[17:25:12]   <ArneDraw>   and with the new scripting system it'd be easy to make
[17:25:26]   <ArneDraw>   i.e. you sit in a shed and defend against zombies
[17:25:29]   <Grif>   yeah
[17:25:55]   <ArneDraw>   with weapons appearing somehow (on zombies, parachute drops, magic, whaever)
[17:26:14]   <ArneDraw>   I'd like zombies to be slow and skeletons to be fast
[17:26:21]   <ArneDraw>   fast and brittle
[17:26:42]   <ArneDraw>   like the old Jason and the Argonauts movie
[17:27:04]   <Grif>   cool
[17:27:21]   <ArneDraw>   zombies would be halfgrown glones
[17:27:26]   <Grif>   with attachables you could probably shoot the flesh off of zombies
[17:27:27]   <ArneDraw>   not quite finished
[17:27:30]   <Grif>   maybe turn them into skeletons
[17:28:04]   <ArneDraw>   haha, or shoot the armour, clothes, flesh then the skeleton
[17:28:38]   <ArneDraw>   I've been busy with other projects / work and stupid IRS trying to rob me of 7k
[17:28:57]   <waohan>   7k funbux?
[17:29:15]   <Grif>   yay IRS!
[17:29:17]   <Grif>   everyone loves the irs
[17:29:20]   <ArneDraw>   but yeah, a lot of the larger robots will be layered, like the orange can is now
[17:29:32]   <Grif>   and there will be a lot of larger robots
[17:29:40]   <Grif>   :awesome:
[17:29:50]   <ArneDraw>   they thought I had cheated, provided no proof, guilty until proven innocent

[17:33:33]   <ArneDraw>   but maybe we can do a minimap by sampling cells of hte terrain
[17:33:54]   <ArneDraw>   maybe use the pathfinding cells, cuz those already are sampled

[17:32:56]   <Grif>   so will CC's largest actors be roughly the size of the dreadnought?
[17:34:56]   <ArneDraw>   no they'll be a bit larger than the dreadnought
[17:35:21]   <Grif>   sounds pretty good then
[17:35:26]   <ArneDraw>   maybe 2.6 meters, I dunno
[17:35:35]   <ArneDraw>   a clone is 180cm
[17:35:48]   <ArneDraw>   a pixel is... what, 5cm?
[17:35:53]   <Grif>   uh
[17:35:59]   <Grif>   settings.ini says 20 pixels per meter
[17:38:07]   <ArneDraw>   so maybe 40-60 pixels, I don't know, I have to finish my lineup

[17:37:13]   <BlademasterBobo>   ArneDraw: Will panties have a cameo?
[17:38:07]   <waohan>   they better
[17:38:10]   <waohan>   or else i want my money back
[17:38:24]   <ArneDraw>   There's one character yeah
[17:38:33]   <Grif>   :awesome:

[17:39:15]   <ArneDraw>   we also came to some good conclusions about the conversation system
[17:39:51]   <ArneDraw>   well see how that works, it has to make sense within the brain-beings context, and I think we can make it

[17:44:52]   <Grif>   anything about the metagame you can reveal?
[17:44:55]   <Grif>   and yeah, that's fine
[17:45:06]   <ArneDraw>   I'd like to see one, I think it would make the universe richer
[17:45:18]   <ArneDraw>   like there's 'meat' to it
[17:45:42]   <Grif>   so cc will have some kind of story?
[17:46:08]   <ArneDraw>   yeah,
[17:46:21]   <ArneDraw>   It's a synopsis so far
[17:47:20]   <ArneDraw>   it's more like... stuff that happens on various missions which reveals stuff about the universe
[17:47:33]   <Grif>   that's fine
[17:47:42]   <Grif>   cc doesn't lend itself to real "story"
[17:48:21]   <ArneDraw>   I'm pretty sure neither of us wants to see like 10 missions and linear progression
[17:49:24]   <ArneDraw>   a more likely solution is certain missions have certain requirements

[17:50:02]   <waohan>   cc is like an rts, right?
[17:50:21]   <ArneDraw>   Action RTS
[17:50:50]   <Grif>   more action than RTS
[17:50:53]   <Zez>   Metagame + 2d side-scrolling action
[17:51:06]   <LordTim>   There's strategy in that you buy units and stuff, but then you also get to shoot guns all over the place
[17:51:26]   <Grif>   really the "RTS" element is that there's resource collection
[17:51:50]   <ArneDraw>   it's hard to nudge it into a genre
[17:52:17]   <ArneDraw>   when we get turrets in it'll seem more like an RTS
[17:52:34]   <ArneDraw>   but Turrets and RTS are tight buddies

[17:53:32]   <ArneDraw>   also, the campaign will be RTS'y hopefully
[17:53:47]   <ArneDraw>   in the sense that you win maps and income (territory)
[17:54:02]   <ArneDraw>   the metagame is something else I think
[17:54:58]   <ArneDraw>   then there's the loose scenarios which is just standalone random stuff (not neccesarily taking place near 'the planet' at all)
[17:55:18]   <Grif>   any possibility of modders adding new planets/campaigns?
[17:55:55]   <ArneDraw>   probably, seeing as the game is content driven and we will have 3 locations
[17:56:07]   <ArneDraw>   planet, moon, station
[17:56:08]   <Grif>   the planet, the moon and
[17:56:13]   <Grif>   aaaaaah tradestar
[17:56:14]   <ArneDraw>   station or derelict ship
[17:56:15]   <Grif>   zero g combat?
[17:56:27]   <ArneDraw>   yeah, zero g would be interesting

[18:01:30]   <Zez>   Also I'd love a bone system, with legs breaking
[18:02:32]   <ArneDraw>   that'll be hard to do, but I suppose a limb could go limp rather than flying off
[18:02:35]   <ArneDraw>   at low health
[18:03:12]   <ArneDraw>   so, full health, wounded=limp, severely wounded=dysfuntional/lame, then fly off
[18:03:25]   <ArneDraw>   not sure if that would be easy to code or not
[18:03:45]   <ArneDraw>   it might be confusing to see the leg on but your character not moving
[18:03:56]   <Zez>   It would be awesome to crawl under a tank with broken legs, kamikaze style
[18:03:57]   <LordTim>   I'm pretty sure that the limbs right now currently have a health in the background
[18:04:02]   <Zez>   Too many pacific movies for me
[18:04:08]   <LordTim>   Some kind of health
[18:04:18]   <ArneDraw>   but we could do awesome stuff too, like sleeping gas, characters just ragdolling to a pile
[18:04:26]   <Grif>   yeah
[18:04:32]   <Grif>   a lot of people want something more like ragdolling
[18:04:40]   <Grif>   where rather than either exploding or just falling over
[18:04:44]   <Grif>   there's some kind of interim state

[18:05:16]   <ArneDraw>   we've been thinking about an AI control computer too, I've mentioned it before
[18:05:28]   <ArneDraw>   it controls the AI guys
[18:05:56]   <ArneDraw>   destroy the computer and your non brain controlled guys just ragdoll
[18:06:16]   <Zez>   Yeah, like those "secondary brains"?
[18:06:18]   <Lord_Ash>   ok, so Im working on this 8bitformer, and I know pretty much where I want to go with it
[18:06:23]   <ArneDraw>   it also explains why they're so stupid, they're being controlled by an old Atari 2600 or something

[18:07:05]   <Grif>   AI is going to get better
[18:07:06]   <Grif>   right
[18:07:49]   <ArneDraw>   if it doesn't we'll have an excuse atleast, that they're obviously are computer controlled
[18:08:08]   <Grif>   really though all I want is for them to turn around when I shoot them in the back of the head
[18:08:41]   <Zez>   Maybe crouch when being shot at
[18:08:51]   <Grif>   not shooting each other
[18:08:55]   <Grif>   is also a pretty good priority
[18:09:05]   <ArneDraw>   ah, yeah we can improve stuff like that, but it's not as easy as it seems, an actor might catch fire from 2 directions, then he needs to evaluate which target is better
[18:09:08]   <Zez>   And walking into each other, even when that's fixable
[18:09:11]   <ArneDraw>   and that's tough as hell
[18:09:19]   <Grif>   or let us customize it
[18:09:28]   <Grif>   it'll be fixed in a week guaranteed
[18:09:27]   <Zez>   With Lua rite
[18:09:37]   <LordTim>   Go Lua!
[18:10:45]   <ArneDraw>   for example, targets have a distance, different guns and danger level... maybe they're just reloading, maybe they're in partial cover, low on health, etc
[18:10:49]   <ArneDraw>   lots of weights
[18:11:21]   <ArneDraw>   and the AI shouldn't cheat either
[18:11:22]   <Grif>   yeah
[18:11:31]   <Grif>   data mentioned a "worth" for weapons
[18:11:32]   <ArneDraw>   it needs to gather its data though its sensors
[18:11:50]   <ArneDraw>   right now all actors see
[18:11:55]   <ArneDraw>   raycast
[18:12:02]   <ArneDraw>   they don't magically know
[18:12:25]   <ArneDraw>   in fact, it's the player who is cheating
[18:12:40]   <ArneDraw>   by having an allseeing eye
[18:12:36]   <Grif>   perfect 360 degree view
[18:12:39]   <Grif>   even through walls
[18:12:53]   <Grif>   it's even worse when you raise the resolution
[18:13:00]   <ArneDraw>   actually the AI does cheat, it knows where the brain is
[18:13:33]   <ArneDraw>   it would be a nightmare to make it search for it

[18:13:59]   <Grif>   any chance of ground getting a "fog of war" type of system
[18:14:08]   <Grif>   obscured until you actually start digging in it?
[18:14:24]   <ArneDraw>   there's 2 fog of war systems
[18:14:29]   <ArneDraw>   reveal and LoS
[18:14:44]   <ArneDraw>   black and grey mostly
[18:15:00]   <ArneDraw>   but those will have to wait
[18:15:14]   <Grif>   sounds pretty cool
[18:16:01]   <ArneDraw>   We've talked loosely about LoS... it would certainly be possible for the player against other actors
[18:16:12]   <ArneDraw>   just use the same raycast that AI actors do

[18:16:24]   <Grif>   there was also, I believe, talk about a "sound" variable?
[18:16:43]   <ArneDraw>   for varied sound effects?
[18:16:47]   <Grif>   for uh
[18:16:49]   <Grif>   AI detection
[18:16:52]   <Lord_Ash>   noise alerts
[18:17:09]   <Lord_Ash>   knock over can, walk on metal grates
[18:17:06]   <ArneDraw>   oh...did you play Tribes?
[18:17:18]   <Grif>   I haven't, actually
[18:17:29]   <ArneDraw>   it had this nice system for turrets
[18:17:40]   <ArneDraw>   you placed turrets, then sensors around them
[18:17:54]   <Grif>   ooh
[18:17:56]   <Grif>   that would be cool
[18:18:00]   <ArneDraw>   there were several, motion, camera and pulse or something
[18:18:10]   <ArneDraw>   something similar for CC might be possible
[18:18:15]   <ArneDraw>   you have a sensor network
[18:18:15]   <LordTim>   That'd be awesome
[18:18:36]   <Zez>   All it needs is a life-support mod, so, power cut, no turrets
[18:19:01]   <ArneDraw>   well we have the idea with the copmuter core
[18:19:15]   <ArneDraw>   it'll have the same effect
[18:19:19]   <ArneDraw>   AI goes down
[18:19:28]   <Zez>   Nice
[18:19:42]   <ArneDraw>   easier to do than coding power cords

[18:24:27]   <ArneDraw>   getting Photoshop CS3 and an iMack 24" + a dual 22"
[18:24:41]   <ArneDraw>   and new tablet
[18:24:52]   <ArneDraw>   costed me 6k :(
[18:25:09]   <ArneDraw>   most I've spent ever
[18:25:17]   <ArneDraw>   but painting is what I do
[18:25:22]   <ArneDraw>   I decided not to cheap out

[18:46:08]   <ArneDraw>   I have a psd for making bunker bits fast
[18:46:19]   <ArneDraw>   not sure if I ever released it
[18:46:41]   <ArneDraw>   it's basically just noise/concrete grain in a layer

[18:57:43]   <ArneDraw>   Grif: Next scenario might have them
[18:57:56]   <ArneDraw>   uh... Maginot line mission
[18:58:05]   <Grif>   that one image in the devlog?
[18:58:14]   <ArneDraw>   yeah it was a rough
[18:59:33]   <Zez>   Will it have OFFENSIVE?
[18:59:57]   <ArneDraw>   it might be both sides
[19:02:38]   <ArneDraw>   the basic idea is predeployed turret/base defence, but I see no reason why the player control just couldn't be switched to the offense side. The mission would probably be about predeployed stuff and reinforcemnts
[19:02:59]   <Grif>   awesome
[19:03:32]   <ArneDraw>   the basic idea for the mission is that player A has crashed, been shot down
[19:03:37]   <ArneDraw>   they start in a crater
[19:04:01]   <ArneDraw>   but some evil black robots move in and starts mowing them down
[19:04:13]   <ArneDraw>   but the brain has time to flee into the base
[19:04:26]   <ArneDraw>   with the black bots in pursuit
[19:04:29]   <Grif>   and then you activate the dfences?
[19:05:19]   <ArneDraw>   Yeah the brain activates the defences and the black bots wear them down

[19:27:19]   <ArneDraw>   I don't remember, all my maps have been very fast and sloppy placeholders
[19:27:42]   <Grif>   wow
[19:27:48]   <Grif>   if you make stuff like that fast
[19:27:59]   <Grif>   what's your work on the final product gonna look like
[19:28:13]   <ArneDraw>   pretty much all of my CC art has been ...rapidly made
[19:28:18]   <ArneDraw>   except for the planet