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 FG Lounge 
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caekdaemon wrote:
a god like entity to stop them derailing the plot.
*coughcough*, I can see a usefulness in these, if only to keep the players in line if something gets completely out of hand. I'd say B works best for me, it's a lot easier to create an interesting and coherent story when you have the details paved out, however freedom should always be a high priority, so I usually have the basics of an event but also envision a metic ♥♥♥♥ or two of branching story paths. One thing I must say is If you are going to have NPC, make sure you know everything about them to begin with, it may sound a bit cliche, but when you know a characters personality off by heart its a lot easier and fluid to write for them.


Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:12 pm
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Which is one of the reasons I'll never make an NPC in any RtD of my own creation. I'm just really bad at them, and they all end up the same.

Atleast, no major NPCs, anyway. Minor ones, like guards, shopkeepers and the like are passable, along with short use major NPCs, who the players will barely know.

Party member NPCs are a big no no for me. Takes away part of the game experience from the players, in my opinion.


Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:35 pm
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I use C. Always.


Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:01 pm
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Tons of responses - awesome! Here are my thoughts, spoiler'd so that it doesn't take up a huge amount of space on the page:
(Also, I use parentheses a lot. I'm kind of addicted to them. I hope it doesn't confuse ya'll too much. (Oh, I just used them again, didn't I.))



And thanks to all that great discussion, two new subjects have emerged: How to Name Things and How to Make a Good NPC.

Naming stuff has always been a difficulty for me (and I'm thinking I'm not the only one). When I come up with names, I usually just pull random sounds out of nowhere, and then feel ashamed because they're so weird and stupid-sounding. Yet, if I don't do that, the names end up being based off of some other language, and then I feel silly because all I'm doing is stealing parts of words and stitching them together.
Finally, if I don't do either of those, my names end up as puns, like Pokemon names. Ex. Charmander. Hurr hurr, Char(coal) (Sala)mander. And that makes me feel the most ridiculous.
What do you guys do?

~

The second subject is a little more complicated. What do you need to do to fully flesh out an NPC? If their entire personality is clear from the first time you've met them, they're clearly not very complex, which can be okay if it isn't important for them to be, but in my case, it kind of is important.
This is a list of what I think is needed right now:
0 - A physical description. It's number 0 because I derped and forgot about it, then added it later. Also, it's kind of a "duh" thing to have.
1 - A basic, one-sentence personality description (just a rough outline, really).
2 - A motivation. Many characters have some kind of goal in mind, which determines part of how they act.
3 - Likes/Dislikes. Everyone needs to have certain things that just get on their nerves, and certain things they're crazy about. This makes them more interesting, and amusing.
4 - Vices/Virtues. There are certain things that are admirable in a person, and certain things that are clearly flaws. This is a necessity.
5 - Quirk(s). This is not necessary, but having a quirk in a character makes them memorable.

I feel like I'm over-thinking that second question, but hey. I'm just putting my thoughts out there.
Feel free to comment or ignore my ramblings (especially on that second one :P ) and thanks again for your thoughts - they're really helping me to get mine in order.


Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:31 pm
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I can't really help with the NPC creation part, since, hell, I need help on that too :P But I do think you've listed it all. But I think the entire personality, and their long term goals and agendas, should be kept out of view of the players. That'd make the character more mysterious, and make the players think more about whether or not that lovable rogue is as loyal as he says he is, or if that great warrior who joined the party is not a plant, or something. And hell, an old habit of mine is that anyone can die in my RtDs, hell, Lord Robert had a relatively high chance to bite the dust, and he was almost plot critical. I think it's better if people who would normally be saved from kicking the bucket should be allowed to die or be wounded. This lets the plot deform and flow, as well as giving the potential for a proper branching story line.

But the naming is pretty simple. I used to mix words and tweak it for better sounding.

The Republic of Rivin, The Ancient Empire of Rozanti, and god knows what else you feel like making. Just take two or more major traits from the location or object, and merge the words. Rivin is a merge of the words river and plains, except I chopped a little off to make it sound better. Rozanti is Rome and Byzantium merged with a little chop.

Magitech was pure spitballing in the IRC, though. Stein sounded good because tankard, and it captured that feel of an industrious nation.


Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:30 am
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It would be kind of silly to let players immediately know anything about a character, their motivations and/or their personality.

Go forth, ye, and let the facts be conveyed by description, dialogue, and action.


Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:16 am
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Since I'm assuming no one really likes to read my walls of text, I put everything in spoilers. Sorry. They're still giant walls of text inside though. I really need to figure out how to post on forums properly. xD

Names:


NPC Personality Notes 1:


About Me (What I did related to this.):


NPC Personality Ideas 2:


And since I want to share my ideas for some forum game that I probably will not have enough time or be motivated enough to host:

Basic Ideas:


Setting:


Magic:


Other Skills:


Stats:


I typed the rest of this last night and fell asleep before I could hit the submit button. xD

I kinda feel bad for people who actually read through my whole posts... ._.


Last edited by kungfuchan13 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:46 am
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Aaaand, I just finished reading all that.

The advice about the character creation is mainly what I focused on. I'm definitely going to have changing NPC relationships in my next game, but I think I'll just keep track of them in my head, as opposed to having some meter, because I don't like the idea of attaching numbers to peoples' relationships, even in a game.

I have huge enough plans for my next game currently, so I doubt I'll be using anyone else's ideas in the future. Though Torrent already stole the floating islands thingy, I'm still going to use it, just in a very different way.

Plans, plans, plans. Well, I'm making decent (if a bit slow) progress, and I hope to be ready to start my new game in a few months.

Now I kind of regret the fact that I didn't plan Illusia very well, because it could have been a lot cooler... and more balanced.

I'm also a little scared that the system I create will be too complex, or people will ignore the game because there are already so many running right now... and nobody will play it. But I suppose I'll just take things as they come.


Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:04 pm
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To be honest, it's an ineffective and stale idea to try and pin down character relationships and emotions in rule form (a stat for embarassment? really?).

If you're serious about story, and I mean really serious, you should treat each character as a completely distinct entity. The plot does not create the characters to fulfill a necessary trope; plot is derived from the interaction of characters, and the consequence of said interactions.

Note: don't take that as an assault on overarching plot. It's impossible to convey a grand storyline exclusively through what a few people do. But remember that everyone has a motive, and that society itself is just the interaction of lots of people.

Make the universe real; set up horizons, and mention places that are beyond them.
Quote:
"Part of the attraction of the L.R. is, I think, due to the glimpses of a large history in the background: an attraction like that of viewing far off an unvisited island, or seeing the towers of a distant city gleaming in a sunlit mist. To go there is to destroy the magic, unless new unattainable vistas are again revealed."
— J. R. R. Tolkien

And above all, use emotional torque; give the audience sadness, bring them joy, hell, even make them pissed off at you. Nothing is worse than a story that induces nothing but apathy.


Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:53 pm
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TheKebbit wrote:
A stat for embarassment? really?).

Yes really. ^.^
The thing is... Those stats revolve around combat. So certain things, like embarassment, would have an affect on reaction time, etc. All those stats are related to combat. I intended some of them to be hidden though. Like EMB.

And what do you mean by "treat each character as a completely distinct entity"? And that's what I intended to do, based on my understanding of what you're saying. As for conveying emotions... Well I'm not very good at this type of thing so I doubt I can make it work.

I agree that trying to put relationships into a set form can be a bad thing, but again this was for a game I was intending to make with computers choosing all the actions based on the "ruleified" emotions and relationships. Not much I can do about that in a computer game. Although... As Kirito said, "The only difference between the virtual world and the real world is the amount of information." So thinking about it like that... Rule-based emotions and relationships are valid, but IRL there are simply a hundred trillion more variables that have an effect on them. Like if person A hates person B but person B does something person A approves of, that's likely a boost to the respect meter. But then there are also things to consider, such as the context of the action, A's personality as a whole, memory, and it all just becomes a jumbled mess eventually. Which is why you never want to think about the full effects of any important action from a psychological point of view for a dozen or so characters. Your brain will explode. Or implode.

And thinking about relationships and emotions in a "normal" way isn't really all that different. Really it's mainly changing "hate = 10/10" to "hate a lot" type of thing. And then for personality, it would all be in "normal" format to begin with. Not really much you can do to change that. Unless I'm going about this completely wrong. Then I have no idea.

And if I'm making enemies, well, please tell me what I did wrong.


Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:30 am
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Oh. I hadn't even realized you were making this a coded game. My advice was directed toward everyone in general, anyway.

By "distinct entity" I meant that they had to be well-rounded characters with fully developed personalities; they have to have at least some motivations, drives, and characteristics beyond the smidgen that might be covered when you stab monsters alongside them or whatever.

Carry on, even though I think embarassment is a ridiculous stat and should be PURGED WITH FIRE.

(P.S. I do plenty of considerations on effects. My brain doesn't necessarily implode. It comes with experience in writing.)


Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:04 am
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kungfuchan13 wrote:
As !!Kirito!! said,

SAO. All my yes. Waiting for the last few eps to come out so I can watch several in a row (I think I stopped at 17) and not wait a week for each one. It's gonna be AWESOME.

*Ahem*

Oh, and don't feel too bad, Kebbit - I didn't realize he was referring to making an actual video-game either - I'm still in the roleplaying mindset.
Also, your comment... on that last line:
TheKebbit wrote:
give the audience sadness, bring them joy, hell, even make them pissed off at you. Nothing is worse than a story that induces nothing but apathy.

This is great advice. I need to focus on this when I do get around to running another game.
It's one thing to make a game fun for those who play it. But making a game emotional for people who play it is even more noteworthy. It's always been my dream to create something that stirs emotion in people. I always feel like I'm really far away from that goal, but I'm making strides to get closer.

Anyway, your words hearten me - I'm glad there are more people out there who have similar views, if not interests (not to mention quoting Tolkien!) in making something that goes deeper than just being a game, or a story, or an idea. Because when I run into something that really affects me... those are the things that I remember best; those are the things that I look back on and wish I could experience anew.

Thanks for the wisdom, bro.


Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:49 am
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Nighthawk.
Bro.
You think the anime is awesome?
Try the light novels.
Having consumed both, I can say that the LNs are better than the Anime. Past SAO anyway, the Anime did it very right. ALO is not as good though.


Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:00 am
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TheKebbit wrote:
Carry on, even though I think embarassment is a ridiculous stat and should be PURGED WITH FIRE.

Hahaha. Well I'm certain it does have a pretty major effect in battles. Maybe not so much in solo fights against monsters, but it would just depend on the person. A person's mental state is very important. Yes yes it is.
TheKebbit wrote:
(P.S. I do plenty of considerations on effects. My brain doesn't necessarily implode. It comes with experience in writing.)

Ah. Well for now, at least, my brain would implode.
TorrentHKU wrote:
Having consumed both, I can say that the LNs are better than the Anime. Past SAO anyway, the Anime did it very right. ALO is not as good though.

Hmmm... The SAO arc was good. Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer as sad as ever. T.T That song will totally make me cry every time I hear it now. As for ALO, I like it. Haven't quite caught up yet but so far it's good. Although... What happened to Jothunheim or whatever it was called? Well now all I need is to see GGO Kirito and SINON! Oh and Yuuki.


Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:07 am
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I didn't much like GGO to be honest.


Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:21 am
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