A Conversation with Purple
With CherryT's commentary in red. Note: This commentary is OPINION.
Published by CherryT at the request of Purple
Publisher's Notes:
This is one of the most satisfying arguments it has been my pleasure to participate in. These PMs are presented to you in as original condition as I can make them. There is a small chunk of the argument missing, which Purple might supply to me.
Originally, I did intend to hold up my threat but later decided against it. Purple pushed me to post this because he wanted to know what the public thought of him. Don't just follow my opinion, make your own of our own hotheaded, insulting member
(ie: Don't believe that to be true).This lengthy argument started with my scathing review of Furfag:
CherryT wrote:
DID I SPY PHOTOSHOP COLOR REVERSING IN THAT LAST FRAME?
THIS COMIC IS BECOMING WORTH READING NOW.
THIS SATIRE. COMIC NOT GOOD.
Seriously though:
"Comic" insinuates that I'll get a laugh at whatever I'm looking at. The only person I've seen laughing at these comics is purple, and he enjoys pain and causing it, meaning that for everyone else, this comic is painful. The only one that was remotely funny was the one above the latest one. And even that had limited laughter value. Most of the time, jokes do not make sense in your comics or are just plain "What the hell did I just look at?" because they're based on inside jokes that nobody understands. Make the humor understandable for everyone and you might get better responses from the people you're trying to show this comic to.
THIS COMIC IS BECOMING WORTH READING NOW.
THIS SATIRE. COMIC NOT GOOD.
Seriously though:
"Comic" insinuates that I'll get a laugh at whatever I'm looking at. The only person I've seen laughing at these comics is purple, and he enjoys pain and causing it, meaning that for everyone else, this comic is painful. The only one that was remotely funny was the one above the latest one. And even that had limited laughter value. Most of the time, jokes do not make sense in your comics or are just plain "What the hell did I just look at?" because they're based on inside jokes that nobody understands. Make the humor understandable for everyone and you might get better responses from the people you're trying to show this comic to.
Purple later points out that I insulted him, being the primary reason for his rudeness in this next post and involvement in my opinion.
purple wrote:
Or maybe you should stop being a douche and lighten up CherryT? Funny is not all about random acts of violence.
Where has it been said that a comic HAS to make you laugh? Just because you can't seem to enjoy it, doesn't mean I don't have to, and it certainly doesn't mean Jack has to stop making them.
His comics have substance, concrete punch lines, and are much more coherent than some "comics" out there today. I don't enjoy pain and causing it, you don't see me trolling like you're doing right now in this thread, and it seems to me that trolls enjoy causing pain.
Try giving a good reason for your comments.
Where has it been said that a comic HAS to make you laugh? Just because you can't seem to enjoy it, doesn't mean I don't have to, and it certainly doesn't mean Jack has to stop making them.
His comics have substance, concrete punch lines, and are much more coherent than some "comics" out there today. I don't enjoy pain and causing it, you don't see me trolling like you're doing right now in this thread, and it seems to me that trolls enjoy causing pain.
Try giving a good reason for your comments.
Being myself, I responded to purple in full.
CherryT wrote:
War, is it? Then get ready to have your post systematically torn apart and analyzed.
Was this REALLY necessary? Did you really have to insult me on a personal basis?
Where does it say? WHERE does it say? What about your NEXT paragraph? You claim that it has a punchline. I'm just not seeing it.
I didn't say you weren't enjoying it. But you look at the majority of posts on this topic and you'll find they say something along the lines of "You suck and so does your comic." At least my post gives a way to make the comic better.
Point to me where I say this. POINT IT OUT. I assure you that you will find I have said nothing of the sort. Stop making incorrect assumptions about the meaning of my post and READ it. My post recommend something for future comics. How will he use my recommendation if I don't intend for him to continue creating Furfag?
As I said, I don't understand them. This is covered in depth in the huge block of text below this. Read it.
I may have caused Jack some pain, but I still recommended a course of action for him to take if he wishes to get an audience. You, on the other hand, are just posting this to assault me. Well done, Mr. Troll.
Purple:
Explain to me how having a dream about a video game where some guy makes some strange comment to you and then you wake up is funny. If the punchline is so coherent, as you claim, why is it so hard for me to find the humor behind this latest comic? Maybe a chuckle at the fact that Jack claims to be a philosopher, but waking up from a dream about Team Fortress 2 is really not that funny.
Point to me where I said that random acts of violence is all humor should be? Once again, you are making childish assumptions based on your personal feelings. As I said, most of Jack's comic are based on inside jokes of which I have no understanding. I'm not saying that they aren't funny to some (apparently you), nor that he should stop making them. I am simply suggesting that you make the joke a little more apparent to people so that everyday people can understand the funny. Take, for example, the previous comic. I understood that one only because I am on IRC and I have gone through the situation that was pictured in that comic. I don't think anyone else who hasn't been on IRC gets it. And the part at the end still makes me go WTF, because I do not understand the obscure reference that Jack is making. But other than that, very few people would find that comic funny because the joke is not explained or not general enough for you to understand it. I could make a comic about inside jokes that my group of friends and I share and none of you would understand it. If I went up to my friends and yelled "WHERE IS IT?" everyone would start laughing at this one Asian kid who hangs out with us. If I made this into an online comic, the only reason someone would find it funny is because it is a sort of non sequitur (Wikipedia it), but even then, it's really not that funny. I find most of Jack's comics are non sequitars for me because I don't understand the humor and the action just seems random.
As Wikipedia states: "Humour is when an alternative or surprising answer is given, that still shows relevance and can explain a situation." Let's see:
Jack's latest comic:
Jack find his dream boyfriend in a TF2 game, but we then find that he was actually just dreaming about the event.
Surprising: Yes: the idea that someone would find their dream mate in a video game is pretty surprising.
Alternative: Sort of, but anything can happen in a dream about a video game.
Relevant: I don't know, what is the relevant to? Is it a HL2 parody, where Gordon meets Barney, who is wearing a combine suit? Is he making fun of the general furry community? Who or what is he citing?
Explains the situation: See above.
Jack: If people had any idea what event you are citing, they would probably find this much funnier.
Purple: This is why everyone detests this comic except for you apparently Purple. And you, sir, are flamebaiting. My post was constructive, though you may not see it as such, and so is my current post. I told him that he should make jokes understandable for everyone if he wants people to laugh and I am still supporting my argument. Your post is pretty close to being a flame because the entire topic of your post was to assault my comments and ideas and insult me and to frivolously claim that the entire point of my post was to be a jerk and insult Jack's artistic being. My words may not be civil, but they still contribute to the topic, offering advice on how to make this comic better. As other administrators have told me and others I occasionally get into arguments with "If you have to make a post that contributes nothing to the topic, take it into a PM." I suggest you do next time.
Purple wrote:
Or maybe you should stop being a douche and lighten up CherryT?
Was this REALLY necessary? Did you really have to insult me on a personal basis?
Quote:
Where has it been said that a comic HAS to make you laugh?
Where does it say? WHERE does it say? What about your NEXT paragraph? You claim that it has a punchline. I'm just not seeing it.
Quote:
Just because you can't seem to enjoy it, doesn't mean I don't have to,
I didn't say you weren't enjoying it. But you look at the majority of posts on this topic and you'll find they say something along the lines of "You suck and so does your comic." At least my post gives a way to make the comic better.
Quote:
and it certainly doesn't mean Jack has to stop making them.
Point to me where I say this. POINT IT OUT. I assure you that you will find I have said nothing of the sort. Stop making incorrect assumptions about the meaning of my post and READ it. My post recommend something for future comics. How will he use my recommendation if I don't intend for him to continue creating Furfag?
Quote:
His comics have substance, concrete punch lines, and are much more coherent than some "comics" out there today.
As I said, I don't understand them. This is covered in depth in the huge block of text below this. Read it.
Quote:
I don't enjoy pain and causing it, you don't see me trolling like you're doing right now in this thread, and it seems to me that trolls enjoy causing pain.
I may have caused Jack some pain, but I still recommended a course of action for him to take if he wishes to get an audience. You, on the other hand, are just posting this to assault me. Well done, Mr. Troll.
Quote:
Try giving a good reason for your comments.
Purple:
Explain to me how having a dream about a video game where some guy makes some strange comment to you and then you wake up is funny. If the punchline is so coherent, as you claim, why is it so hard for me to find the humor behind this latest comic? Maybe a chuckle at the fact that Jack claims to be a philosopher, but waking up from a dream about Team Fortress 2 is really not that funny.
Quote:
Funny is not all about random acts of violence.
Point to me where I said that random acts of violence is all humor should be? Once again, you are making childish assumptions based on your personal feelings. As I said, most of Jack's comic are based on inside jokes of which I have no understanding. I'm not saying that they aren't funny to some (apparently you), nor that he should stop making them. I am simply suggesting that you make the joke a little more apparent to people so that everyday people can understand the funny. Take, for example, the previous comic. I understood that one only because I am on IRC and I have gone through the situation that was pictured in that comic. I don't think anyone else who hasn't been on IRC gets it. And the part at the end still makes me go WTF, because I do not understand the obscure reference that Jack is making. But other than that, very few people would find that comic funny because the joke is not explained or not general enough for you to understand it. I could make a comic about inside jokes that my group of friends and I share and none of you would understand it. If I went up to my friends and yelled "WHERE IS IT?" everyone would start laughing at this one Asian kid who hangs out with us. If I made this into an online comic, the only reason someone would find it funny is because it is a sort of non sequitur (Wikipedia it), but even then, it's really not that funny. I find most of Jack's comics are non sequitars for me because I don't understand the humor and the action just seems random.
As Wikipedia states: "Humour is when an alternative or surprising answer is given, that still shows relevance and can explain a situation." Let's see:
Jack's latest comic:
Jack find his dream boyfriend in a TF2 game, but we then find that he was actually just dreaming about the event.
Surprising: Yes: the idea that someone would find their dream mate in a video game is pretty surprising.
Alternative: Sort of, but anything can happen in a dream about a video game.
Relevant: I don't know, what is the relevant to? Is it a HL2 parody, where Gordon meets Barney, who is wearing a combine suit? Is he making fun of the general furry community? Who or what is he citing?
Explains the situation: See above.
Jack: If people had any idea what event you are citing, they would probably find this much funnier.
Purple: This is why everyone detests this comic except for you apparently Purple. And you, sir, are flamebaiting. My post was constructive, though you may not see it as such, and so is my current post. I told him that he should make jokes understandable for everyone if he wants people to laugh and I am still supporting my argument. Your post is pretty close to being a flame because the entire topic of your post was to assault my comments and ideas and insult me and to frivolously claim that the entire point of my post was to be a jerk and insult Jack's artistic being. My words may not be civil, but they still contribute to the topic, offering advice on how to make this comic better. As other administrators have told me and others I occasionally get into arguments with "If you have to make a post that contributes nothing to the topic, take it into a PM." I suggest you do next time.
This more than amply supplied the reason behind my thinking, as well as defending my status as a member by tearing apart purple's quote and pointing out the flaws (something I am known for). While some may consider this scathing and a flame reply, I say to you: Find my personal attacks on purple. There is only one: "Mr. Troll", which I believed he deserved after a particularly incorrect comment. But the previous post was not the straw that broke the camel's back. This next one was what drove me over the edge.
purple wrote:
I enjoy this comic. Don't change your style to suit the tastes of the unintelligent masses.
Also, don't think for a second that the even more stupid individuals represent the voice of anyone beyond themselves.
Also, don't think for a second that the even more stupid individuals represent the voice of anyone beyond themselves.
Now you may be thinking: "This is such a small, insignificant post! It doesn't even insult you directly! Why get so worked up about it?" I knew, in my heart, that this post was directed at me. And the worst part of it was that I could not respond to this in the thread without derailing the topic and starting a public flamewar. Purple thought he had me. Little did he know he was wrong. I did the thing I suggested to him and took it to PMs.
Note: Due to cleaning of my inbox for space, I only have the 2nd half of the full conversation. For compensation, I have provided a short summary of what happened in those missing tomes.
Quote:
CherryT said: WORDS AND ACCUSATIONS!
Purple said: WORDS.
CherryT said: MORE WORDS AND SUPPORT OF ACCUSATION!
Purple said: A SIMILAR AMOUNT OF WORDS.
CherryT said: WORDS.
Purple said:
CherryT said: WORDS WORDS.
Purple said: + WORDS.
CherryT said: DELICIOUS WORDS.
Purple said: SCRUMPTIOUS WORDS +.
Purple said: WORDS.
CherryT said: MORE WORDS AND SUPPORT OF ACCUSATION!
Purple said: A SIMILAR AMOUNT OF WORDS.
CherryT said: WORDS.
Purple said:
Code:
[quote="purple"]I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.[/quote]
CherryT said: WORDS WORDS.
Purple said:
Code:
[quote="purple"]I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.[/quote]
CherryT said: DELICIOUS WORDS.
Purple said: SCRUMPTIOUS WORDS +
Code:
[quote="purple"]I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.[/quote]
At this point, the story is documented:
CherryT wrote:
Face it purple, you've lost. I can tell because you're responding to half of my PMs instead of addressing the thing in its whole. You're quoting a quote that does not apply. Drop the topic and leave. You're trying to defend a sinking ship with a rusty tin bucket. You have no case against my argument. You're alluding to me (among others) with your comments and calling me unintelligent. You cannot deny that.
Before this point, purple had produced something that almost made me give up. His refrain throughout this conversation (the only part that was saved in the tomes). I thought about it and responded that he WAS offensive to me because the only time I had seen him was when he was offensive to others. Using this, I continued on.
Purple wrote:
Wow, you seriously don't learn do you? You're trying to hard to get me to admit something, ANYTHING, when there is nothing to be admitted.
I haven't said you're unintelligent, but I WILL say you're a crybaby.
I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.
I haven't said you're unintelligent, but I WILL say you're a crybaby.
I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.
At this point, I subconsiously knew I had him. He was doing exactly what I had portrayed him as: running away and giving up. I did not know how I was going to get him at the time, I just knew that I had to keep pressing on and keeping him interested until I found a chink in his armor. The only thing driving me after this was the knowing that I was in the right, not only about him insulting me but also in that he was on the ropes.
CherryT wrote:
I'm trying to get you to admit to something because there IS something to admit to.
Stop playing dumb and trying to lie your way out of this. I have provided you with concrete evidence that supports my argument. You have provided me with none. I requested a style change (my, as you said, "taste" in humor says that jokes should be understandable by all and should be explained by the joke itself) and you don't want Jack to change his style for the "unintelligent masses". I've asked you several times to point out another user that has requested that Jack should change his style. Since I am part of (and possibly, the only member) of this group who wants a style change, I am therefore associated with unintelligent. You have not responded to that question in any of your replies because you know that the truth is that you are referring to me. And I will continue to believe this until you convince me otherwise with solid evidence that shows me so. You also claim that "the even more stupid individuals" don't represent voices beyond their own. Who are you referring to? Once again, this question has not been answered. Why? Because you know and I know that that post was made in reference to me and my post. And you just don't want to admit to being a flamer, because the minute you do, I have textual proof that the post you created was intended to hurt another user.
You know what you could have done to avoid this?
Replied in a civil manner to my insulting post. You could have looked like a real hero replying in a way that does not make a personal attack on me and made me look like a total idiot. Could have, that is. Instead you decide to call me a douche. What do I do? I give you a perfectly logical response explaining my opinion of Jack's comic and why I want him to do what I'm asking him to do. Never do I once call you anything and insult you on an personal basis except for calling you "Mr. Troll", which applies to you in my opinion, specifically regarding your offensive post. Was it worth a 6 letter word insult to start something that lasts over 2 hours of your life?
This is one lesson I have learned from life. You want to know why people hate you purple? It's not because people believe you're just another unintelligent cussing user. It's because you invite hate by using insults to reply to any and every post that you feel you are right in. I don't know why you do this and I don't want to know. You have your own personal reasons. But I'll tell you that responding to people in inappropriate manners has gotten me into my fair share of trouble. I have high amounts of respect for intelligent users and I respect you for your knowledge and opinions. But my contempt for you is caused by the fact that you feel it is a necessity to include an insult in the posts you make, even when you may be right.
Stop playing dumb and trying to lie your way out of this. I have provided you with concrete evidence that supports my argument. You have provided me with none. I requested a style change (my, as you said, "taste" in humor says that jokes should be understandable by all and should be explained by the joke itself) and you don't want Jack to change his style for the "unintelligent masses". I've asked you several times to point out another user that has requested that Jack should change his style. Since I am part of (and possibly, the only member) of this group who wants a style change, I am therefore associated with unintelligent. You have not responded to that question in any of your replies because you know that the truth is that you are referring to me. And I will continue to believe this until you convince me otherwise with solid evidence that shows me so. You also claim that "the even more stupid individuals" don't represent voices beyond their own. Who are you referring to? Once again, this question has not been answered. Why? Because you know and I know that that post was made in reference to me and my post. And you just don't want to admit to being a flamer, because the minute you do, I have textual proof that the post you created was intended to hurt another user.
You know what you could have done to avoid this?
Replied in a civil manner to my insulting post. You could have looked like a real hero replying in a way that does not make a personal attack on me and made me look like a total idiot. Could have, that is. Instead you decide to call me a douche. What do I do? I give you a perfectly logical response explaining my opinion of Jack's comic and why I want him to do what I'm asking him to do. Never do I once call you anything and insult you on an personal basis except for calling you "Mr. Troll", which applies to you in my opinion, specifically regarding your offensive post. Was it worth a 6 letter word insult to start something that lasts over 2 hours of your life?
This is one lesson I have learned from life. You want to know why people hate you purple? It's not because people believe you're just another unintelligent cussing user. It's because you invite hate by using insults to reply to any and every post that you feel you are right in. I don't know why you do this and I don't want to know. You have your own personal reasons. But I'll tell you that responding to people in inappropriate manners has gotten me into my fair share of trouble. I have high amounts of respect for intelligent users and I respect you for your knowledge and opinions. But my contempt for you is caused by the fact that you feel it is a necessity to include an insult in the posts you make, even when you may be right.
I kept purple reading by presenting my convincing argument against his. In the Lost Tomes, I claimed that the attack was aimed at me specificly, several times, with increasing amounts of evidence that purple did intend for the post to have a negative effect on my reputation. This argument presents some really good points and was the beginning of the end of the argument. The idea that stopped purple dead in his tracks was formed here.
purple wrote:
You're such a troll. Go back under your bridge. I'm not sitting here worrying over what you think about me.
You still just don't get it.
You still just don't get it.
purple wrote:
I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.
Code:
[quote="purple"]I only seem offensive to you because you choose to take offense in what I do.[/quote]
I did not take this personal assault kindly. I continued my relentless attack, in hopes that I would soon find the key to ending this argument. At last, I did.
Quote:
Purple, you don't get it. I'm not a troll, nor do I intend to come across as one. You are the one at fault here.
Riddle me this purple:
Why did you make that post offending to any member of the community? Why didn't you just say "I don't agree with CherryT. Your comic has its own unique humor Jack and I think that should be preserved in future comics." Perfectly civil, offends no one. What was your purpose in making that post offensive to others?
Oh, and a tip for future reference that my AP Euro History teacher told me: "The point of an argument is not to convince the other person that you are right. This will never happen. The point of an argument is to get your opponent to question his beliefs."
Riddle me this purple:
Why did you make that post offending to any member of the community? Why didn't you just say "I don't agree with CherryT. Your comic has its own unique humor Jack and I think that should be preserved in future comics." Perfectly civil, offends no one. What was your purpose in making that post offensive to others?
Oh, and a tip for future reference that my AP Euro History teacher told me: "The point of an argument is not to convince the other person that you are right. This will never happen. The point of an argument is to get your opponent to question his beliefs."
At this point, I knew I had him 100% in checkmate with my next move in ANY way he responded to me. I admit that I did not expect his next response though.
purple wrote:
You insulted me first.
And you just keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. Trying to be the "more mature" person in this conflict when YOU started it.
Troll.
CherryT wrote:
The only person I've seen laughing at these comics is purple, and he enjoys pain and causing it, meaning that for everyone else, this comic is painful.
And you just keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. Trying to be the "more mature" person in this conflict when YOU started it.
Troll.
His response surprised me, but I knew it was true. It didn't matter though, I still had my trump card to play and still found a way to use his words against him. I put my card into play.
CherryT wrote:
I insulted you first. Yes, I admit it. Let me ask you:
Did you have to continue?
Who would look like the more mature person: the guy who says
or the guy who says
There is NO REASON for you to have taken that turn except that you wanted to play my childish game and insult me back. Who's the more mature one now?
If we're going to turn this into a maturity contest, I provided you with a civil answer. As I said before, I never once insulted you in my post except for calling you "Mr. Troll" in response to a section of your post which I found offensive. What do you do? You post in a way that is offensive to me and offensive to others. Why? Why do this? What was your purpose behind trying to offend me, and if not me, trying to offend others? What possible reason could you have behind this?
Purple, you're backed into a corner with no way out. You have one of three decisions:
1. Tell me what I believe is the truth, in that you made that post in response to mine and purposefully made it offensive to get back at me, in which case I will immediately report your post as flaming with your response as a reference.
2. Tell me it's in your nature to cause conflict and hate within the forums, in which case I will send this conversation in this entirety to an administrator.
3. Ignore me or respond in an inappropriate manner, in which case I will post this conversation on the forums and leave it up to the users to decide what to do with you.
I suggest you take the first path.
Did you have to continue?
Who would look like the more mature person: the guy who says
Quote:
You know, you insulted me. I do not enjoy causing pain and I don't know why you characterized me as such. I believe this comic is funny and I think you're wrong. You just don't understand the humor.
or the guy who says
Quote:
Or maybe you should stop being a douche and lighten up CherryT? (personal attack)
Where has it been said that a comic HAS to make you laugh? Just because you can't seem to enjoy it, doesn't mean I don't have to, and it certainly doesn't mean Jack has to stop making them.
His comics have substance, concrete punch lines, and are much more coherent than some "comics" out there today. I don't enjoy pain and causing it, you don't see me trolling like you're doing right now in this thread, and it seems to me that trolls enjoy causing pain. (You just did by calling me a douche.)
Try giving a good reason for your comments.
Where has it been said that a comic HAS to make you laugh? Just because you can't seem to enjoy it, doesn't mean I don't have to, and it certainly doesn't mean Jack has to stop making them.
His comics have substance, concrete punch lines, and are much more coherent than some "comics" out there today. I don't enjoy pain and causing it, you don't see me trolling like you're doing right now in this thread, and it seems to me that trolls enjoy causing pain. (You just did by calling me a douche.)
Try giving a good reason for your comments.
There is NO REASON for you to have taken that turn except that you wanted to play my childish game and insult me back. Who's the more mature one now?
If we're going to turn this into a maturity contest, I provided you with a civil answer. As I said before, I never once insulted you in my post except for calling you "Mr. Troll" in response to a section of your post which I found offensive. What do you do? You post in a way that is offensive to me and offensive to others. Why? Why do this? What was your purpose behind trying to offend me, and if not me, trying to offend others? What possible reason could you have behind this?
Purple, you're backed into a corner with no way out. You have one of three decisions:
1. Tell me what I believe is the truth, in that you made that post in response to mine and purposefully made it offensive to get back at me, in which case I will immediately report your post as flaming with your response as a reference.
2. Tell me it's in your nature to cause conflict and hate within the forums, in which case I will send this conversation in this entirety to an administrator.
3. Ignore me or respond in an inappropriate manner, in which case I will post this conversation on the forums and leave it up to the users to decide what to do with you.
I suggest you take the first path.
Boom. Caught red handed. He was either going to lie to me again, tell me what I believed was the truth, or tell me that it was in his nature. In any one of those three paths, I had him. He could either:
1. Get a reported and sucessfully removed post.
2. Be banned for life from the forums as a "forum bully" and troll.
3. Be shunned for life with a bad reputation on the forums from this posted conversation.
His king was ready to be knocked over. This was his response.
purple wrote:
You're a joke. Hypocrite, troll, whatever.
Keep making empty threats, they are REALLY getting you somewhere.
/sarcasm
Keep making empty threats, they are REALLY getting you somewhere.
/sarcasm
I laughed aloud when I read this and knew he had raised his white flag. It was the most satisfying argument I've ever had. I hope this has allowed you to make an informed opinion about purple. To this day, I still do not have the answer as to why purple posted in his offensive manner. I still think it was to attack me, but I suppose I will never know. I hope you have enjoyed "A Conversation with Purple". Thanks for reading.