He's in JROTC. He wears glasses. He sucks ♥♥♥♥.
Surfer dude he is not.

okay, I'm sick of seeing threads like this in every forum I go to. Time to lay some people out, with facts.

Fact 1: Unless we abolish the US Dollar, and the current Federal Banking system, the National debt, will NEVER be payed, and there is provable evidence, to this effect.

Fact 2: 97% of african americans voting for Obama, is not racism, so long as A) the other 3% voted mccain, and B) if at least an equal number of whites also voted for him. 97% of blacks do not make up 50% of the US Population, so its not racism.

Some people just hate blacks, and don't care what his policy actually means, and just skim over it.
some people are just conservative republicans and hate that he's a democrat.

Fact 3: a high percentage of americans, don't vote, because it doesn't matter who wins, as long as the corporations pay the budgets.

Fact 4: increasing the tax on corporations, and decreasing that of the normal taxpayer, WILL cover the debts, to the extent claimed, for one reason.

It is not truely a 'flat tax' because that implies a fixed Dollar value but in actuallity, it is a fixed Percentage. if I made $10,000 a year, and you make 20,000,000 a year, and we payed a 1% tax,
I would pay the government $100, but the rich, buisnessman, with 20 mil annual, 1% is still $200,000

And that's the governments version of a 'flat tax' which would save this country, but that will never happen, because the few, the rich, buy out congress and presidents, to get rid of it. there called lobbyists.



Now back to fact 1: as long as we have the federal reserve system, backing the US Dollar, we will never be out of debt. Why and how? lets look at how money is currently made.

the US Government says to the federal reserve bank 'we need 10 billion dollars'
the FRB says 'okay, give us 10 billion in reserve notes' (which is a government issued loat, AT INTREST)
the FRB gets the IOU from the government, and prints off 10 billion dollars, which is then handed to the government, and distributed to banks. voila, money.

That money goes to the banks, this becomes there new minimum. the lowest amount the bank needs. the maximum a bank may have, and will have, now goes up at a rate of 90% of the minimum
which of that 10 billion, 9 billion is the ADDITIONAL amount permited, which the bank then gets.

How does that bank, get the 9 billion, to make it 19 billion in total? nowhere. they just add it to the computer.

where does the value come from? it's value is determained by the value of the already existing money.

the banks give out loans, from that money, to be payed back by the recipient, AT INTEREST.

This means if I take a loan of 10,000, I have to pay back the bank, 10,000 PLUS INTEREST.
Not only that, but I have to pay the IRS, a federal Income tax, which is in itself, an unrepresented tax.



What is the IRS, and federal Income tax?:
It is the US Government, collecting money, from the general public, to pay BACK the money it owes to the federal reserve bank, PLUS interest.

lets say it was at 2.27% interest.
that means the 10, billion that they just took out, PLUS 2.27% of that 10 billion, is payed back.
and where does that interest come from? the money that existed before the new money was created.

this means there will always be an outstanding debt, because 100% of all american dolars, is LESS than the total debt, used to create it. that means every dollar, has an attatched debt of 1.227 bucks, per dollar.



So, In short, the only way to fix the financial crisis, is to remove the federal reserve bank, and the US Dollar, and replace it, with a gold standard, silver standard, or even dare I say, a resource based economy.
This has happend only ONE time in american history, when it was replaced with the greenback, which then the FRB was created in the 20's and pulled it from circulation.

Neither Obama Nor McCain, would have done this. therefor, Neither candidate will fix the national debt, Neither candidate would fix the taxes, Neither candidate would fix medicare, the poor, the debted, the sick, the homeless, the war veterains. And most imporant, why this country will NEVER be out of war. Thats why we're in Iraq, We gave THEM a loan, for How much money? wasnt it in the billions or trillions?

And they have to pay US back, AT INTEREST, with money thats NOT currently in circulation with the US Dollar, thus giving it more value.

for more information watch these 2 films http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/




TL: DR
Neither candidate will fix a damn thing because it requires getting rid of the US Dollar and replacing it with a new currency independent of the federal reserve bank.

in fact, a furry with asbergers syndrome would do as well.

Some people are hate blacks, and don't care what his policy actually means, and just skim over it.
some people are just conservative republicans and hate that he's a democrat.

Either way, those people are not the majority, as obama won both the electoral, and majority vote.

If you think he shouldn't have won, and you DIDN'T VOTE, you screwed up, and have no right to complain. You stood by and let it happen, its your fault, dont point the finger at others.



For more information (on the money/war thing) watch this http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Be warned: the videos contain some... interesting imagery, and Ideas.

If you dont want to see clips of warfootage, money being made, or 9/11, don't watch.
If you don't like religion being presented as the basis for people to believe some of the bull♥♥♥♥ thats said now, also dont watch it.

and only watch about half of each, if you hate the idea of comparing jesus with horus, and the zodiac.



Still TL: DR?
just shut the fudge up and stop your debate on who would have been better, its over. mccain lost, grow a pair and get over it.

There are so many things wrong with your post that I'm wondering if it's supposed to be a joke and I'm just not seeing the sarcasm.
In the off but important chance that you're serious, I'll point out two things.

For your point #4: Learn how income tax in the US is done. Tax brackets. People who make more pay a higher percentage. A flat tax would be more fair than currently, not less. Also, if these few, rich lobbyists are so adverse to paying more taxes, I have nothing to fear from Obama's claims of increasing income tax, hmm?

Your view of Federal Banks: The Government prints money to keep it in circulation and control inflation. In teh US, money is made primarily of paper. Paper is not very durable. Ever see a ripped, frayed, or really messed up dollar bill? Yeah. Those grungy dollars will not stay in circulation much longer. If the federal mints did not print money, we would burn our way through all of our cash in a matter of months. Sometimes they print less money, if inflation is bad, or people are being more careful with their precious dollar bills. ALSO, the Debt. If the Gov't is continually in debt because it's such a stupid group as to ask the bank to print money when it needs it, why hasn't the dollar dropped into the can? It's going down, but not as fast as the Zimbabwe dollar. According to guardian.co.uk, Zimbabwe is currently experiencing over 200.0Mil% inflation. The US, by inflationdata.com, is experiencing about 5%. I don't see the connection.

This thread is so lol.

I love debunking Grif's fun facts.



Thats a lot more than two, Grif.

Ahahhaa I was going to quote parts of Miles' post and say "lol zeitgeist?" but he already linked it.

Yeah, so calling it facts just because of a single biased movie and then assuming that you have a strong argument based on your interpretation is a rather dangerous thing to do around here.

So, for fact #2, 97% of blacks voted for Obama, as compared to the expected percentage of 52%. Proportion out of the population means little, save for expected error. And I never said it was racism; I just meant that it does not imply that racism is wholly dead. Racism is the belief that one's race is inherently superior. I was going more towards prejudice. And I don't want to make too big a point of this, so I'll stop there.

For fact #1, read up on monetary policy and start getting facts from, say, multiple reputable sources. Monetary policy is a heck of a lot more complicated than that, and no, it's not impossible to pay off the debt. The budget does not necessarily provide a deficit. And yes, I did find it funny, yet not professional enough to be sarcasm.

For fact #3, there are numerous reasons for voter apathy, many of which have nothing to do with "so long as the money gets paid". Blanket cynical generalizations simply don't apply very often.

Fact #4: A FLAT TAX IS NOT A FIXED DOLLAR VALUE. IT IS A FIXED PERCENTAGE. It just means that that percentage does not increase with total taxable income. And I'm not against a progressive tax for purposes of helping the government in understandably difficult times. I am against paying more for the sole purpose of wealth distribution, which is exactly what Obama proposed. Also, corruption, interestingly enough, is more complicated than "Washington is bought out", and is far less widespread and more nebulous than most theories seem to suggest. How do I know? Because predictions of previous theories were usually wrong, and I see no reason to believe that current theories are any different. Voting for any candidate because you think that they are uniquely free from corruption is laughable.

Thanks for implying that anyone that doesn't watch Zeitgeist is ignorant. It entertained me.

Many people here can't vote, and of those that can, many probably did, and if they didn't they probably don't care enough to point fingers. Now stop pointing fingers at people that probably don't exist around here. Also, I'm not bitter that Obama won. I just think that we will indeed live in interesting times.

And for a final point, it's "Asperger's syndrome", and it doesn't just apply to furries.

Obama is fake anyway, I cant tell by the pixels.

well first, for the last 8 years, it HASN'T been a flat tax, because bush changed all the taxes, to some wacked-out thing where rich people get MORE money, in the theory that it will 'trickle down' to the poor, except that all the rich people don't spend ANY money, and they just horde it all away.



I still get bills dated between 1948, and 1996, in 1's, 5's 10's and 20's, the 4 most frequently used bills.
that statement is now debunked, as, since 1920, every year, the bank creates MORE money, then they take out of circulation.
you used to be able to live a week on $0.15, now you can't live a week on $20 unless your living on stale bread and imitation cheese product (like me sadly)



If the US Reserve Bank, (a fractional reserve bank) IE the US Mint, did not create new money, we would lose about $10,000-$50,000 a year, from bills larger than 20, being ripped and torn, pluss or minus 500, in ones, 5's and 10's.

which means, there would still be a ton of money in circulation, and the value of the dollar would go up, not down, not to mention, the IRS, which is another private organization, still takes money out of circulation, to make up for the fact that we're on a fractional reserve system, which means the money is valued against a promissary note, IE, an I owe you, a LOAN.

All in all, If the US mint, stopped making money, AND the IRS stopped collecting, the dollar value would go up, by less money being in circulation.

If the US Mint stopped printing, but the IRS continued to collect, we'd have less dollars, but because the IRS is taking money out of circulation and re-ballancing, either A) the value would stay the same, or B) it would still go down, so that they could theoretically pay off more of the national debt.



Rather than just pulling something out of your ass to try to prove me wrong, actually do the research, its quite horrifying the situation we're in.



and as for obama, and his role in all this,

Can he remove the FRB and IRS, or will he A) get bought out by them B) get shot by racists, or C) political Assassination by the federal reserve bank (there already in the triple-diget kill-counts anyway)



those are backwards i think, but anyway.


Just because it's a movie, doesn't make it less reputable. Yes, they are somewhat biased, but simple fact, they did do the research, its a documentary, not 'pulled out of my ass fiction' they talked to real people, about real events, and referenced real books, which you can go to and check for yourself. in this situation, I refer to 'modern money mechanics'

I never said people didn't vote because of money.
Money has NOTHING to do with what I said. I stated that, most people don't vote, because no matter who wins, nothing will actually change. that has nothing to do with if they can get a paycheck.


I know that, I only said it like that because its funny, after all, double-meat with bacon.



in a side note, alenth eneil, thank you for being on the same page.

I would have prefered McCain (Actually Huckabee or Romney would have been a better choice than McCain) over Obama.

I read in the news that tons of people did fake write in's, such as Jesus, Mickey Mouse, and even Rocky for President and Bullwinkle for VP.

Jesus for President!!!

jesus was a democrat soooo

Fact 5: Every year, almost as many people use a write in for a fake person, such as bart simpson, or jesus, than a real person, for president or otherwise, than a real candidate. its always a Tie between bart, and mickey mouse.

also, despite all of it, i'd still go for someone like ron paul or nader. TREES!!! TREES!!! INTERNET TREES!!!

do you even know what nader stands for

...

ITT: Racism and bitter nigerians.

The last president was dumb. Its time for the democrats to try to be less dumb. Deal with it.