PS HKUltra, you made a comment about her "girl power" thing, and compared it to Obama's "being black" thing. That you would imply his being elected was in any way benefited by his skin color is ignorant, and to think that being a woman helps Hillary is similarly ignorant. Like we need another white man running the White House.

PPS The email "scandal" is a prime example of her being attacked by the media over a largely-ineffectual non-issue akin to that of the Benghazi ordeal. It was a construct of the right to attack her credibility. It is common practice to use private email servers, and her using such an unprotected server was only lambasted because there isn't much else to attack her over.

PPPS No matter what, Dems aren't going to vote for Republican candidates because they're batshit. Are you seriously implying that in the general election, an avowed socialist who has registered as an independent until the last year would do better than an establishment candidate like Hillary Clinton, who brings with her the weight of the Clinton name, alongside over a decade of experience on the national political stage? I'll admit her being a woman hurts her mainstream appeal, but she is one of the most qualified candidates we've seen in decades.

Nah, we're just used to our government being broken enough that we have to do it like that. If America actually got together, listened to Bernie, voted (the terrifying lack of ability/desire to vote is a big problem as well), and just did the bare minimum of armchair activism towards a better future, we could kick half of congress to the curb and get a real damn political revolution going.
This isn't a country of "No we can't".

You're ♥♥♥♥ deluded if you think Obama being black wasn't a big help in him getting elected. The novelty alone of electing the "first black president" or "first woman president" is a big driver for a lot of voters. Yeah, it sounds shitty that a lot of people are voting on anything besides the candidates qualifications, but it's true.
Also "Like we need another white man running the White House." What's wrong with a white man in the white house? Are you saying that being a white man makes you a worse president? Or that we should vote for candidates that aren't white men, on the basis that they aren't white men?

I'm merely arguing that a white man can't have lived through the experiences of injustice a woman has experienced all her life, and that is valuable perspective given we have yet to have a head of state in this country with that sort of experience. And I definitely agree that some people will vote for Hillary for the "novelty", as you put it, of having the first woman president, and that a similar situation was true for Obama. However, there are also TONS of people who didn't vote for Obama because god forbid we have a n*gger for a president, and I know plenty of people who have told me to my face that they wouldn't vote for Hillary because she's a woman.

Anecdotal, but for what it's worth nobody I know who supports Hillary, does it solely because she's a woman. It might help but they at least support her policy somewhat.

At the same time, I know plenty of people who have told me they like her positions, but they would never vote for a woman for president.

To use your words, you are ♥♥♥♥ DELUDED if you think there are more people in this country who WOULD vote for someone because they are either black or a woman, than there are people who would NOT vote for someone because they are either black or a woman.

Common practice to use email servers? Sure.
Common practice to use email servers to send classified information over unsecured channels, in some cases even stripping the classification identification off the emails so that it was just treated as a regular nothing-important email? A little (a lot) less fine.

P sure most of them are already voting Republican regardless.

No, I have plenty of Democratic friends who are sexist enough to say they won't vote for Hillary Clinton because she's a woman. RE: email scandal, she messed up, but that does not singularly disqualify her as a candidate.

I think it is noteworthy that Bernie Sanders has only won states with a fewer than 10% black population.

Yeah, me too. Especially how Bernie gave up his stage to BLM protestors and has frequently said he cares about racism in the US, whereas Hillary had a BLM protestor escorted out of her event otherwise full of wall street reps.
As for your friends, I think you should get better friends.

You're right, I'm sure you know better than all those silly minorities. Hillary's overwhelming support from the African-American community probably has NOTHING to do with her positions or experience as a politician, why would that even be part of the equation? Black people are doing themselves a disservice by not voting for Bernie, after all he had that very publicized BLM incident where BLM protesters took over his stage (not given over, taken over) because of his lack of focus on issues of police reform.
/sarcasm

EDIT: "...how Bernie has given his stage up to BLM protesters..."
Here is the event I believe you are referring to, please correct me if I'm wrong:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-el ... ch-n406546
I refreshed my memory of the event, and Bernie was even more hostile than I remember him being.

"I am disappointed that two people disrupted a rally attended by thousands at which I was invited to speak about fighting to protect Social Security and Medicare," Sanders said. "I was especially disappointed because on criminal justice reform and the need to fight racism there is no other candidate for president who will fight harder than me."

So yeah, let's just say he gave his platform up to BLM protesters and forget the part where he was disappointed the whole thing happened.

The private server is a pretty big deal if even half of what I've heard is true. As far as I'm aware, she shared top secret information on her highly insecure mail server. That's a serious issue.

I doubt upper-class white women, especially one with tons of money and political connections, face a meaningful amount of injustice you'd associate with being a woman.
Besides, if an upper class woman counts as experiencing injustice, then the son of Jewish immigrants from Europe during WW2 certainly does too. Bernie's family moved to America from Poland during the second world war, a Jewish family escaping Hitler's reach. Antisemitism is just as real as misogyny.

Even if you count Hillary's time as first lady, and simultaneously don't count Bernie's years as a mayor, Bernie still has 25 years of experience against Hillary's 23.

This is anecdotal as well, but my mother doesn't want to vote for Trump. (a surprising thing to me, considering what I know about her)
However, she's said that if it's between Hillary and Trump, she'll definitely vote for Trump.
She's also said that if it were Bernie against Trump, she'd vote for Bernie.
And I don't think she's the only one with that mindset.

Anyone would be disappointed if someone took over your stage while you were speaking. Especially if you considered yourself to be a good supporter of the movement, only to have that happen.

I think it's telling that you don't think a powerful woman has experienced injustices against women. I think you missed the point of #YesAllWomen. It isn't #YesAllWomenUnderThe250KIncomeBracket. I'm way too drunk to continue this debate, but this has been really disappointingly eye-opening for me. I thought this forum was much less inclined toward those social pratfalls which perpetuate ignorance today under the guise of "well what are we gonna do to change it?"

For the record, I'm not attacking you for being sexist because you don't support Clinton. I'm just not going to sit by when you make sexist claims. Asap Ferg may have had a wealthy boutique-owning father in Upstate New York, but he was still followed around in stores when he went shopping for watches. Racism, sexism, whatever, it doesn't discriminate based on income.

Even so, I don't think that automatically makes her a good candidate.


But the discrimination against women (or other groups for that matter) is much more prominent when you're in poverty. If you're rich, it's not a big problem if employers won't accept your application because of your gender, or if you don't get paid as much as a white man. If you're a single mother with kids struggling to feed your family, it matters a hell of a lot more. Instead of not being able to buy another yacht, you don't get to put food on the table. You're kind of ♥♥♥♥.

While feminism is an important issue, I don't think being a woman makes you automatically better informed. Bernie could work to fix it as well, especially if his hands aren't tied by deals with the big people in the party and taking money from special interests like a certain someone.
I think poverty and the massive concentration of wealth in the top 1% is a much bigger issue that could help fix a lot of issues feminism and plenty of other groups face at the same time. Everyone's a lot less ♥♥♥♥ if you can at least make a living. This goes especially if he can help get money out of politics - then groups pursuing equal rights for women, people of color, or religious minorities can actually get things done. They don't need a millionaire backing them.

I would like to add that while there has never been a female president, there also has never been a Jewish president either.

honestly from a finnish perspective your politics are all ridiculous
vote bernie 2016

SINCE WHEN IS HILLARY THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS BETWEEN HILLARY AND TRUMP LMFAO

Omg miggles u are so edgy. Wow you have such well articulated political views. I'm sure you're hiding them to be so hilariously ironic or whatever. You are really the winner of this one And not Hillary cos all she's gonna win is the presidency.

Instead of millionaires paying politicians to make laws for them, they just run for office themselves. We're eliminating the middle man with Trump! I for one think it's a massive step forward for the American people. :^)