Every game in the 40K franchise has stated that Autoguns (the game's term for assault rifles) and Lasguns do the same amount of damage. You don't see the Coalition rifles shredding dropships like paper. I know of Imperial Guard mods that make the Lasguns sane.

But again, compare those rates of fire. A Lasgun fires 120 shots a minute, a Coalition AR 800 shots a minute. Assuming every single shot hits and causes an entrywound but no exitwound - highly improbable for both sides of the argument, but it could happen! - and that both sides have some infinite ammo, a consistent rate of fire, and no mechanical failures from firing constantly for a whole minute, then the Lasgun will have inflicted 480 wounds, versus the Coalition AR's ... 800! Huh. Laspistol? 600. Lascarbine? 720! This gets a lot fuzzier with Hellguns and Hellpistols, since they can in theory inflict a ludicrous quantity of wounds-per-minute on par with Bolter weapons should all of their beams hit. But that's so improbable I'm not even going to go there.

Take in mind the beam-drawing is quite sluggish, so even if I ramped up the RPM and dropped the damage, performance would suffer. Try watching half a dozen guys popping away with lasguns. It runs pretty well, right? Now swap those lasguns for hellguns, and watch your FPS plummet. I really doubt anybody wants that for the sake of 'accurate' firepower values.

I'll freely admit that, looking at the values, the sharpness on the fragments is probably much too high; I'll almost certainly reduce that quite significantly in the next update, as it's probably contributing to why they seem so deadly. But otherwise I'd say they're pretty damn well balanced in terms of both gameplay performance and technical performance. Things do not have to be - and will never be - 100% lore accurate. Period.

Another small thing to consider; las damaging particles generally do not live long enough to cause exit wounds, except on limbs, as they last for about 10 milliseconds. This is not the case for conventional assault rifles in CC.

I DEMAND W40K LORE ACCURACY AND BALANCE WITH CC
SIMULTANEOUSLY

NOW


No, not gonna happen. Simply put, W40K's OPness level can't be matched by ANYTHING that ISN'T W40K! And in CC, just some centuries have passed, so you'd have to wait like 37-38k years for it to happen.

But being serious, Warhammer works in a complete different scale that isn't applicable to anything. They fire rounds that are caliber 1 or higher (if I recall correctly) AND explode. In HEAVY MACHINEGUNS THAT ARE CARRIED BY MARINES. Marines aren't "humans", they are highly modified humans which makes them superhuman. Everyone wears armor made of strange materials that can easily stop "small" caliber bullets (read .50). They have to kill monsters/aliens that have exo-skelletons and goddam thick skin, without considering those guys that have armor made of nano-awesomeness that can stop things without a problem. The cheapest and quickest weapon to mass produce should also be able to counter those things, since getting bolters for everyone wouldn't be easier. Yeah, lasguns can barely handle armored guys, but even a lasgun should, in theory, kill the weakest foe possible. And the weakest possible enemy can still stop stub gun shots (weapons from our times, not autoguns which are superior than those). CC, in the other hand, guys wear a single metal plate in the chest and a simple metal helmet in the best scenario, there are humans fighting with NO armor, they are using M16s and AK-47s, which are very strong for us, not for 40K GRIMDARKNESS, dropships aren't designed for battle (they are just transports) and rockets aren't HUGE ULTRA-ARMORED GALACTIC CRUISERS.

It's obvious that someone is gonna CLEANSE PURGE KILL another one with goddam ease. Just blame CC for not matching W40K's OPness scale.

The only thing I'd suggest for Las balance is that the Hellgun is so incredibly effective, which is fine, but can fire a very long distance. I'd say it's range ought to be nerfed to closer to the Hellpistols range.

Same goes for the Melta, which is incredibly powerful and fires right off the screen and across a large portion of many maps. It's range should be far more limited.

Otherwise, love the compilation and update. Thanks a lot.

Widow Hellgun range; 1500px
Hellgun/Lasgun range; 1250px
Hellpistol/Laspistol/Lascarbine range; 1125px

Meltagun/Inferno Pistol range; 500px
Multimelta range; 600px

Noted, though. I probably will make the Hellgun/Hellpistol/Meltaweapon ranges a bit shorter.

About my last post, excuse me for causing such a hiatus of Khorne-styled bloodshed.
Sometimes I forget how powerful Lasguns actually are, guys. Asklar, I know well about how 40k works.
Again, sorry guys

Can't doubt that anyone knows much more than me, I just know a little after reading parts of some codexes.

I also don't like much the fact that this W40K mod is OP, but it's just that we all forget the fact that in W40K nothing is too OP. And porting this into CC is a huge challenge.


So yeah, I'm glad that Arcalane has found ways to make things much more balanced, though that perfect balance is seemingly unreachable.

i swear people don't read each page sometimes, Balance + CC been argued before, By myself previously.

Lasguns are perfectly fine as they are.

Well, terminator44 is right in that the firepower is equal to autoguns (I checked my books as well), but I stand by my assertion that their balance is fine. They're loosely based off how Lasguns performed in the first Dawn of War series, in which they were more like semi-automatic rifles rather than the pewpewpewpewpew of the Kasrkin hellguns, or the autolasers they turned into in Space Marine. When it comes down to it, there are dozens of different Lasgun patterns, and the one in the mod is just one of those. Also, Lasguns do not possess Fully Automatic fire in Dark Heresy, only single and burst.

Also, I think it nicely forces you to use more Guardsmen and attack as a group, since you can't just hose down targets with one guy.

Also also, take in mind a lasgun can but is not guaranteed to inflict up to four entry wounds, and that exitwounds are - if memory serves - typically more damaging to the victim than entrywounds.

Due to scatter, some of those damaging particles may radiate away from the victim and not hurt them.

Ultimately I'm keeping the ROF as-is for technical purposes, though I will be reducing the sharpness of the non-Long Las damaging particles.

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I don't feel it would be fair to excessively nerf performance so that it's 'perfectly balanced' with stock CC, because this is 40K. I want to at least maintain some scrap of that in how things perform, and some of the awesomeness.

And yes, perfect balance is unreachable. It's also boring as ♥♥♥♥, because it means no one side has an advantage in a given situation, leading to infinite stalemates. So you have equalizers or stalemate breakers - the way you can use a Melta-Cutter or any other digging tool to tunnel into an enemy base to bypass his defenses that can otherwise flat-out stop all of your attacks, or you could call down an airstrike to bomb the hell out of said defenses, or try and pick them off from super-long-range with the Marine Sniper Rifle... and so on and so forth.

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Well there are like, fifty of them pages thar. I only get irritated by it when people ask the same dumb questions about vehicles or terminators.

Well, when it comes to 40k lore, it's mostly not internally consistent, so you can pick and choose which bits you follow, like the bible. So let's not pick on the balance using pieces of lore or real life to argue with.

I tend to base all my idea on fluff and lore based on Horus Heresy Novels or Codexs.

regardless. Lasguns are perfectly fine as they are. i might get tempted to start creating a Vindacare assassin sprite, But im thinking maybe have the Inquestion Chapters as their own Mod. i mean right now most Inquistion Weapons are just clearly more advance versions of current weapons so adding Inquistion wouldn't be a good idea, atleast that my opnion.


The Next weapons i'll work on will be more Stub guns and the Orygan Ripper.

As far as Stub Guns go, I think the only thing I'm missing from the various DH-books (ignoring the Piles of Guns in the Inq.'s Handbook et cetera) would be the Hand Cannon -- and honestly the revolver is a pretty damn fine handcannon as-is.

Ripper Guns! \o/ It'll be like the Imperium Shotgun, but on steroids.

...hooboy.

I think I might add impact-detonating grenades as an ammo option for the Ripper as well. Good idea? Best idea!

My dear Arcalane, will there be Ogryn with these ripper guns?
Addenum: To balance the Ripper Guns, make them with a burst fire limiter as they are for Ogryn

Actually, you haven't included the shotcannon, the giant shotgun used to repel boarding parties in Rogue Trader. Of course, if you do include the Ripper Guns, then it might be redundant.

'Might' be redundant? It sure as hell would be -- and the existing shotgun is pretty damn badass as-is. You know each of the shotshell pellets can actually inflict two entrywounds, not one? Even if the blast somehow doesn't kill the target, the sheer number of entrywounds they've taken will probably cause them to bleed out within a second or two, unless their entry-wounds don't cause health loss over time. It's much deadlier than your average CC shotgun. If you need to kill something at longer ranges, it even has highly accurate slug and frag rounds!

Hell, it holds 15 rounds in a drum magazine, fires 120 rounds a minute with full-auto capability, has a fairly tight spread with shot ammo, high-accuracy slug and frag rounds for longer ranges, and it even has a laser sight and a bayonet! The only major 'downside' is that the shot is quite ineffective against craft and heavily-armoured actors.

...yeah, I made the Imperium Shotgun really deadly. It's probably kinda cheap for how deadly it is.

The Ripper will probably be ridiculous. I'll have to amp up the RecoilTransmission and give it a very limited capacity with slow reloading or something to make it balanced.

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You shouldn't even need to ask to know the answer: if sprites are forthcoming... then yes. Otherwise no. Simple as that.