http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_defense_weapon




Also if you look at this:


... and don't just see two rifle rounds of different size, then your nomenclature is stupidly picky. "Small rifle round" is a subcategory of "rifle round," which means small rifle rounds ARE RIFLE ROUNDS. So I don't really see how you could say these small rounds are so WILDLY different from larger rifle rounds that you can't actually call them rifle rounds. They're pointed and bottlenecked, with a powder-to-bullet ratio skewed greatly in favor of the powder. That's a damn rifle round.

Yeahno. Just because it's the same bullet a rifle round may use, does not mean it is a rifle round. It is a rifle round if it was designed to be used with a rifle. I also have no idea where you're getting "small rifle round" from.

There are a number of examples of handguns (pistols) that shoot "rifle" rounds, as well as rifles that shoot "pistol" rounds. The terminology to try and define and categorize cartridges does not really have clear and concrete guidelines and is based mostly on marketing and propaganda, but...
Did you know that the common assault rifle cartridges (5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, & 5.45×39mm) are actually Intermediate Cartridges and not proper full Rifle Cartridges? I see no reason to not count the 5.7x28mm in the same category as those other Intermediates. If you want to ague that it is too much like a .22LR, then I guess we will just have to call it a Rifle Cartridge (which .22LR are).

Indeed, but those pistols do not fire the same round that the rifles do. The round they use has a bullet of the same caliber, but the casing has been downsized or changed entirely.

I'm really just arguing that a ROUND is not the same thing as a BULLET or a CASING.

Omg tokarev TT33 7.62 pistol omg ak bullet must be powerful.
It's not like you're using today's rounds anyways, it's futuristic super rounds from the future.

With that said, I'm going to shut up now and let you rerail the thread if you want to, darlos.

This thread has turned into a bullet size argument. Lets get back on topic.....

I love the idea of the new pistols. They seem like they will round out the jump from pistol to rifle.

Look up the Kel-Tech PLR-16, the Maadi-Griffin, and the Thunder .50BMG for pistols shooting real not downsized or changed cartridges. For rifles shooting pistol cartridges, see the Marlin and Winchester lever action repeating rifles for some nice classics, but in more recent years the M1-carbine could count (though that cartridge is its own strange nebulous classification) that shared a round with the Ruger Blackhawk and AMT Automag.

The whole rifle shooting pistol rounds thing was rather common for the wild west era as it was a great way to have both your carried guns, (rifle and pistol) to share ammo type. I think Darlos' idea of having shared ammo between the two is just fine.

Ugh. I think the ultimate conclusion that we can draw here is that weaponry nomenclature can get extremely fuzzy and be absolutely not based on any of the qualities of the thing itself.

For instance, I've always been amused by the term "rifle" itself. For those who don't know, the word "rifle" actually refers to "rifling," which is the corkscrew grooves cut into the inside of the barrel of a gun. They make the bullet spin, which makes it deviate less when its flying. Funny thing is, almost any small firearm worth its salt has rifling these days, even pistols. But even though "rifle" comes from "rifling," having rifling isn't a good enough qualification to call a gun a rifle. It seems a bit incongruous when you think about it, but that's language for you.

I feel that asking the question of " Who CARES!?" Is necessary here. Were talking about a game centered upon brains in jars, telekinetic control of human and robot clones, and an army based upon extensive exosuit and laser weaponry use, not a hyper realistic military simulation program. Who cares what Darlos calls the bullets. Its set in the future and based upon previous stated technological advances its safe to assume anythings possible and bullet names/sizes are irrelevant.

there could be genetically altered flying pigs for all we know.

Hrm. You risk going too far in the OTHER direction though. The "brains in jars" argument is one that is often parroted around here, and one that gives absolutely no consideration to the fact that advances in neuroscience may very well reach that level one day. So "brains in jars" isn't necessarily a silly or unrealistic concept. Just impossible with current technology. Also these controls aren't telekinetic, just wireless, which is 100% possible with today's tech. We already have flying remote-controlled battle robots. Lasers are also viable in the context of the future. It's really only a matter of decades before we see some weaponized lasers widely in use by advanced militaries. Railguns too. You will see those weapons in your lifetime.

Even if other modders or even the game itself isn't too intensely concerned with realism, keep in mind that this mod IS. For every feature, I have some kind of technological precedent that is either currently existing or theoretically possible. So flying in here making comments based entirely off of "rule of cool" is missing the point.

Also... it's not like there's much else to talk about right now, until I have my mod complete.

My point though, is that this game is supposedly set far in the future, therefore giving a fair amount of creative wiggle room. If how I understand the argument to be is correct, then many are arguing against pistols with rifle rounds based on "Not used much now" argumentation. Who's to say that pistols won't use rifle rounds in the future? Especially considering our current trend towards increasing weapon portability AND power.

Oh, so you meant exactly the opposite of what I thought you meant. Whoops, sorry.

I think that, though the argument STARTED with a comment questioning having rifle rounds in a pistol, ultimately the argument turned into "can PDW rounds be considered rifle rounds?" Which I think we can safely say is an argument we're done with.

Ultimately none of this will have any effect on the content of my mod.

Question.

How long will the gun buylist be?

I'd say 9-12 guns long, with alternate ammo types in some other place, possibly shields knowing darlos right.