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Suggestion: Dodging (aka Moving to Background)
http://45.55.195.193/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7857
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Author:  Mechanoid [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:48 am ]
Post subject:  Suggestion: Dodging (aka Moving to Background)

[1st Revision]
Like crouching, prone, and jumping, dodging would be a very useful ability for actors (and later on, land vehicles) to have. It would provide them with a way to avoid being mindlessly gibbed or horribly crippled every time they want to cross paths with another actor... Or when a dropship's engine explodes and throws a gib their way.

Internally, Dodging alters the way the actor collides with other AHuman actors (later vehicles) and various particles. Mostly, as stated before, it stops the actors from gibbing each other when they cross paths and attempt to use their climbing path to move over one another.

Gameplay-wise, Dodging would have to be a precisely timed action for it to work properly in a combat situation, and even then, it wont protect you from bullets. It would, however, stop you from being knocked around by a thrown grenade (not the explosion the grenade creates!) or allowing a RPG to connect with your actor's face. Since Dodging would be a timed action, you would have to use some level of skill to execute a properly timed dodge. Too soon, and you'll collide with whatever you tried to evade. Too late, and you'll probably not transition all the way in time; you could still lose a limb.

Of course, it will still be completely impossible to dodge large and heavy objects, like dropships, rockets, and when implemented, vehicles; Modded-in ACME 1000 metric ton weights, included.

...
The attached image below entitled "Dodge Suggestion R1" (Revision 1) shows a ball which can represent a grenade, gib, or another actor. The actor on the right has pressed the dodge button, and will avoid being hit by the ball. The actor on the left however, will suffer for his poorly-timed attempt to dodge the falling object.


[Polling has been disabled due to a major malfunction -- poll options weren't getting deleted]
[Tack-on idea from original version: Have special "safe" areas where the player can dodge into, and stay in a special "safe" mode where he can't be hurt by bullets, but could still be hurt by explosions. Thus, as Vash states on page 2, you could have a "Firing from around a corner" event.]

Attachments:
File comment: Dodge Suggestion R1
DodgeSuggestion.PNG [5.63 KiB]
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Author:  whitty [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

it could be possible to make your guy go "MTB", but probably very hard to get him back out of it and back to normal. try to get this past data. this sounds like a good idea and a fun twist to the gameplay.

Author:  Grif [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

So...

You want a 2d game to implement a Z-axis?

Author:  Mechanoid [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

It's not actually moving your actor into another dimension, it's just changing his collision settings so it SEEMS like he is. :wink:

Author:  3 solid [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

This would work, but it would be a bit hard to tell what kind of position he would be in.

The safe areas are also a bit confusing to me.

Author:  Seraph [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

So, setting gethitbyMoS to 0 on the press of a button plus many, many other things to create the illusion of a semi-3d environment?

Sounds alright.. I do wish there would be some way of providing cover, or a defensive position.

Author:  TSRabbit [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

Nice Idea, data really needs to find a way to allow people to pass through each other without any risk of them exploding; or in the case of Build 18 allow them to actually pass through each other.

Author:  Mechanoid [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

3 solid wrote:
The safe areas are also a bit confusing to me.

In the attached image in the OP, there are 3 clones in different states in the 3rd image block.

Right side "Normal"
- Can shoot other Normal and MTB actors.
- Cannot shoot MTBSafe actors, unless in the same MTBSafe area.

Middle "MTB"
- Can shoot Normal and other MTB actors.
- Cannot shoot MTBSafe actors, unless in the same MTBSafe area.

Left side "MTBSafe"
- Cannot shoot Normal or MTB actors; attempting to shoot or move will revert him to MTB, unless the space is shared by an enemy unit. Shooting in that case will keep the actor in MTBSafe, until the enemy actor is dead and the space is no longer shared by opposing sides.
- Can be hit by bullets that have been set to hit MTBSafe actors (like grenade fragments /air blasts or rocket /dropship engine flames)

The 2nd image block in the attached image shows the material texture used for the hallway. Yellow is the color for "MTBSafe" areas. Every body part of an MTB actor that touches that material will become "MTBSafe" can cannot be hit (except in the above situation) so a clone's leg or gun could technically be "not safe" and could be shot off despite 90% of the clone being in the safe area.

Author:  Orindell [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

This is a great idea and would add a lot more tactics to CC. Using this, And some skills, You make it so that in the end Numbers are the decider in a battle. Not mention being able to pass thourgh your troops would be a god-send. This has my full support.

Author:  Pyrorex [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

Wouldn't BG/FG leg effect ♥♥♥♥ up with this?

Author:  Mechanoid [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

Pyrorex wrote:
Wouldn't BG/FG leg effect **** up with this?

No. The BG/FG setting on legs and other actor limbs is purely for visuals; it determines which one is drawn behind the other, nothing else im sure.

[I also see people voting flat-out "No." without posting their reasons why nor how they'd fix it. If there arn't an equal number of "No" posts stating reasons why and/or how to fix to the number of "No" votes, then the "No" votes can and should be ignored. If you spend enough time to read the OP, and click the vote button, you sure as hell have enough time to post a response. As well, you can change your vote at any time should your opinion be swayed to something else.]

Author:  whitty [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

Mechanoid wrote:
Pyrorex wrote:
Wouldn't BG/FG leg effect **** up with this?

No. The BG/FG setting on legs and other actor limbs is purely for visuals; it determines which one is drawn behind the other, nothing else im sure.


thats right. the difference is a shade darker in the BG. and so you dont have 2 legs coming from 1 socket :P

Author:  numgun [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

This idea is quite wicked, I like it as a strategic idea but it might be kinda complicate for several things.

I mean ok, you cant shoot a guy who in the safe area when youre on a normal zone.
But what if that guy has a nuke? Or even more simple: A grenade?

It would be logical if the grenade would terminate the hiding guy even if he was hiding in the safe zone. This would require seperate values for pixels... no wait, for everything. How would all the collisions and hit registry work? Since Ive got no clue. I like the idea but im not sure if it might work out.

Author:  Mechanoid [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

The collision would be fairly simple, and would not require a new pixel value for everything; only very specific things, 2 or 3 things max.

The way it functions in the most basic computer-like pseudo-language i can think of is this:
Is the actor in this specific area marked by these mat pixels? If so, is he MTB?
Then dont let any bullets except special bullets hit him.

Author:  Pyrorex [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion: Moving to the background

Mechanoid wrote:
Pyrorex wrote:
Wouldn't BG/FG leg effect **** up with this?

No. The BG/FG setting on legs and other actor limbs is purely for visuals; it determines which one is drawn behind the other, nothing else im sure.


Methinks no, or they'd hit eachother, ♥♥♥♥♥♥. They're drawn on a BACKGROUND AND FOREGROUND, HENCE THE NAMES.

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