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Interesting modding problem (Skeletons not harmed by gibs?)
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Author:  Dicky B [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting modding problem (Skeletons not harmed by gibs?)
I was just messing around and decided to make a sort of "slime gun". It shoots a ball of slime which splits into a bunch of high-sharpness gibs on impact, which dissolve any enemy they hit.

The strange thing is, it works wonderfully on clones and robots, but has little effect on skeletons. It just knocks their weapon away and only does any real damage if you completely bury them with the gibs. Before that their health seems to stay around 90-98%

I even tried replacing the bone material values in Base.rte with the flesh values, to no avail, which leads me to believe it may be something hard-coded into the game which makes skeletons less vulnerable to gibs.

Or did I just miss something obvious?
Author:  I am Drunkman [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Might be something to do with a skel having holes in him?
Author:  Dicky B [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmm. That never occurred to me.

Perhaps there is a rule where the gibs go right through if they are below a certain size. I'll try increasing the size to test it...


Edit: Nope, if anything it made it worse.
Author:  piezo [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
hmm unfortunately I don't have the skeleton code to check, but looking at your scootz code, the damage is based upon low velocity, high mass gibs for damage. I would guess that the skeletons have a higher GibImpulseLimit than the blue/green clones. The sharpness of 9000 on the MOSRotating is going to do nothing (a sharpness that high would normally cut through most of the standard materials even at low velocity - try a MOPixel with the same stats and you'll see), so what you're probably seeing here is just collision damage of 40kg x velocity (between 1 and 5) and no penetrating hits.

Compare the gibimpulselimits, can't test my theory right now heh. :oops:
Author:  Dicky B [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
piezo wrote:
hmm unfortunately I don't have the skeleton code to check, but looking at your scootz code, the damage is based upon low velocity, high mass gibs for damage. I would guess that the skeletons have a higher GibImpulseLimit than the blue/green clones. The sharpness of 9000 on the MOSRotating is going to do nothing (a sharpness that high would normally cut through most of the standard materials even at low velocity - try a MOPixel with the same stats and you'll see), so what you're probably seeing here is just collision damage of 40kg x velocity (between 1 and 5) and no penetrating hits.

Compare the gibimpulselimits, can't test my theory right now heh. :oops:


Nope =(

Skeleton: 1000
Clones: 1800
Robots: 2250
Author:  I am Drunkman [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
So make it higher?
Author:  piezo [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dicky B wrote:
Nope =(

Skeleton: 1000
Clones: 1800
Robots: 2250


Can you post the clone and skel .inis please. now you got me curious. No cc on this machine.
Author:  Dicky B [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am Drunkman wrote:
So make it higher?

Doesn't seem to have an effect.

piezo wrote:
Can you post the clone and skel .inis please. now you got me curious. No cc on this machine.


http://pleasesendhelp.com/crap/Skeletons.ini
http://pleasesendhelp.com/crap/Clones.ini
Author:  piezo [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dicky B wrote:
I am Drunkman wrote:
So make it higher?

Doesn't seem to have an effect.

piezo wrote:
Can you post the clone and skel .inis please. now you got me curious. No cc on this machine.


http://pleasesendhelp.com/crap/Skeletons.ini
http://pleasesendhelp.com/crap/Clones.ini


Thanks. Just as a quickie, the surest cure for more damage with a 0 sharpness particle is more mass and speed ^_^ Heh i'm actually curious to find this resistance 'gene' for a new strain of clones :twisted:

EDIT: wow...yeah really weird. They have lower GibImpulseLimits so they should be more susceptible to collision damage. The only real difference I see between clones.ini and skeleton.ini is the inclusion of GibSound (which is new in v11 i believe). Guess i'll fool around with this too when I get home.
Author:  Dicky B [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I might just abandon hope then. Increasing the mass and velocity would mess up the slime dynamics. I don't much want it to dig right through the ground or go flying around the map.

I guess I can just lie and say it's a "feature" :lol:

"Skeletons don't have skin and slime only works on skin everybody knows that!"


edit: "Skin and metal!"
Author:  piezo [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dicky B wrote:
I might just abandon hope then. Increasing the mass and velocity would mess up the slime dynamics. I don't much want it to dig right through the ground or go flying around the map.

I guess I can just lie and say it's a "feature" :lol:

"Skeletons don't have skin and slime only works on skin everybody knows that!"


edit: "Skin and metal!"


hehe yeah that would be one way. well try increasing your min / max values by a little bit more, like 5 min, 10 max. Your gib velocities are really low for such a high mass. That's why you're having success crushing them by covering them. (of course doesn't explain why it gibs the clones tho). Feature indeed.
Author:  Alenth Eneil [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:19 am ]
Post subject: 
GibSound isn't new, NFS and I guessed the name of it back in V10 when we wanted sounds on impact explosives, NFS talked to Data and apparently we had the exact name, just wasn't used officiallly till now.

I wonder how many other untapped variables there are.


On the topic, I have no idea, I haven't known a heavy object to kill anything, just bury them, and skeletons dont die underground as easily as clones.
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