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Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
http://45.55.195.193/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14282		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  HandOfCode [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
I find the sentry mode is very... 'challenged' (can't blame them with these mouse controls).

I've seen them just sit there while the enemy AI lands right in front of them and do nothing while they get blasted away. The EAI on the other hand will shoot if they get even the slightest LOS on one of my units. This makes holding a base very hard as now it's a micromanagement game to the point where I have to control individual units instead of just being able to say "guard this point, if something moves, shoot it".

I will say this, the EAI has its flaws. I managed to get one to pick up a concrete gun and fill in my brain chamber for me :).
Author:  tons0phun [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
I don't mind their detection abilities so much to how they react upon seeing an enemy; as soon as a unit sees the enemy, they hit take cover and hit the dirt.

That's good when you're on the offensive (such as moving along from the Go-To command), but for being on guard they should be taking the first shot before kissing their butts goodbye.
Author:  Rawtoast [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Well I think it's pretty clear that the sentry AI is suppoed to be crap.

Obviously, better AI already exists in CC - the enemy's. If sentry mode was supposed to be good, wouldn't this AI be used?

In fact, it would seem that the developers went out of their way to make sentry-mode shittier, a the AI for it is for sure much lower than even easy skirmish mode.
Author:  3 solid [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Not true. The enemy AI is so good because they've put alot of work into it, whereas they haven't put much into senty AI beyond "stand here and shoot". Then they added the weird reaction thing, which works fine for offensive AI, but defensive AI end up hiding behind their barricades, unable to fire at anything.

It's just that the defensive AI have not been tweaked yet.

If one of the green hearted AI enemy soldiers stood still to defend a spot, he'd be as inept as any defensive AI.
Author:  Gloopy [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
tons0phun wrote:
I don't mind their detection abilities so much to how they react upon seeing an enemy; as soon as a unit sees the enemy, they hit take cover and hit the dirt.

That's good when you're on the offensive (such as moving along from the Go-To command), but for being on guard they should be taking the first shot before kissing their butts goodbye.

Mine take cover into endless pits.

Which still stinks.
Author:  DtD [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
What also annoys me is that there is no sort of "Stand here and shoot enemies" command. I've made enemies stand near the edge of a cliff on my base so they can shoort down at approaching enemies, and they always insist on walking off the side when an enemy approaches. :roll:

~DtD
Author:  HandOfCode [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Grif wrote:
Hahaha oh man the AI isn't perfect?

crap, thanks for telling us, we'll write that one down.



*checks post* I don't see any mention of "not perfect" in my original post. Just a mention of how the sentry AI is quite a bit worse than the attacking AI
Author:  Rawtoast [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
3 solid wrote:
Not true. The enemy AI is so good because they've put alot of work into it, whereas they haven't put much into senty AI beyond "stand here and shoot". Then they added the weird reaction thing, which works fine for offensive AI, but defensive AI end up hiding behind their barricades, unable to fire at anything.

It's just that the defensive AI have not been tweaked yet.

If one of the green hearted AI enemy soldiers stood still to defend a spot, he'd be as inept as any defensive AI.


The sentry AI has significantly shittier aim and incredibly slow reaction time. That would seem like a purposefully built in flaw.

There's no reason why they wouldn't just give sentry mode the same AI that the opposing computer has, minus the impulse to walk around as much.
Author:  robolee [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
not to be an ass or anything, but, you call that a suggestion? That's just asking for better ai and describes the problems... here's an actual suggestion:

If an actor is set to sentry mode make it stand in the same place and direction (and not turn around), then if it sees something shoot it, only hit the deck when it can't see any enemies but is getting shot at or needs to reload and is getting shot at then when it gets up return to the position it was in when it was placed in sentry mode. that's pretty much all sentry mode needs to be and sounds pretty simple to implement.
Author:  Scope0 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Hey! your problem with the AI not shooting back is because their guns tells them they are not in range. an AI with an uzi wont fire on an enemy at the edge of the screen.

give em' assualt rifles and you should see a BIG improvement.
Author:  Grif [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Rawtoast wrote:
The sentry AI has significantly shittier aim and incredibly slow reaction time. That would seem like a purposefully built in flaw.

There's no reason why they wouldn't just give sentry mode the same AI that the opposing computer has, minus the impulse to walk around as much.


No reason except for the fact that the game isn't done and AI is one of the last features Data's worrying about. AI is much, much simpler than a well optimized well rounded physics engine that can run on just about any platform you put it on, up (down?) to and including EEE PCs.

The sentry AI is shittier than the attacker AI because at the moment, with an endless horde of attackers in skirmish mode, it's significantly more interesting to have semi-decent attackers, rather than total morons. Sentry AI will be improved, guaranteed, along with every other kind of AI. Hell, we'll be able to do it ourselves.
Author:  HandOfCode [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
robolee wrote:
not to be an ass or anything, but, you call that a suggestion? That's just asking for better ai and describes the problems... here's an actual suggestion:

If an actor is set to sentry mode make it stand in the same place and direction (and not turn around), then if it sees something shoot it, only hit the deck when it can't see any enemies but is getting shot at or needs to reload and is getting shot at then when it gets up return to the position it was in when it was placed in sentry mode. that's pretty much all sentry mode needs to be and sounds pretty simple to implement.


touche.

@scope0: I gave them sniper rifles.

@griff: Aye optimizing physics is fun, especially if you want to prevent things like tunneling, where an objects movement frame to frame doesn't take things into consideration between the frames. My gravity sim on my TI-83+ has this problem, if I place an object moving at the speed of one screen width each frame and have its trajectory pass through a black-hole it just keeps on moving past the black-hole and out the other side of the screen as it didn't take into account the gravity effects between the frames :)

So we can't mod the AI right now? darn would have been nice as I'd just make it myself :D
Author:  The Decaying Soldat [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
The duck for cover thing wasn't added until...B21? No, B22. And that is no where near being an improvement. Back in B21, actors were much more reliable. They stand still and shoot, though stupid, but at least they perform their duty.

And that's why everyone uses Dreadnoughts for base defense these days, much more reliable. Very much like no one uses rockets anymore and uses droppods instead. Reliability issues is a pain in the ass in CC.
Author:  Grif [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Hey uh contrary to popular belief, the universe does not infact revolve around decaying soldiers.

Not "everyone" uses droppods and not "everyone" uses dreadnoughts. Piece of ♥♥♥♥ things can't climb out of a 48 pixel hole, let alone motor across the battlefield at any useful speed.

And rockets are an absolute joy to use. Reliable as hell, and reliable killing machines.
Author:  Charmless [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion - Improved sentry AI
Grif wrote:
And rockets are an absolute joy to use. Reliable as hell


Except when they retro thruster your head into meat just as you get out.


Anyway, yeah, there are lots of issues with the AI, I'm sure that it will get greatly improved as things come along.

after all, BACK IN MY DAY, SOLDIER'S DIDN'T HAVE ANY FANCY DIGGERS OR PATHFINDING. THEY WALKED THEIR WAY THROUGH DIRT! *shakes cane*
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