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 Making Rounds hit harder 
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:40 pm
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Post Making Rounds hit harder
I remember seeing an equation long ago about there being a formula for how damage is calculated with the round, something about the Mass * Sharpness or something like that. I do not remember what it is so I can't exactly figure how strong my guns are without blindly changing stats until it gets close to what I want.


Fri May 03, 2013 1:11 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Here's a good one regarding structural integrity. Keep in mind the values are arbitrary, and you may want to plug vanilla round variables into the equation and compare the product to your own.

As far as raw bullet power is concerned (not damage to an actor), I believe the equation is (Mass*Sharpness*ParticleCount)(Velocity^2), but I'm not 100%.


Fri May 03, 2013 2:06 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Thank you, I appreciate the help. Regarding actor damage, I heard all guns do the same damage unless you increase the amount of particles a gun fires or if a particle penetrates completely through the target (creating an entry and exit wound). Again though, thank you, I'm planning a mod with somewhat realistic guns and its rather difficult with how Cortex Command's code is with rounds and such.


Fri May 03, 2013 2:23 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
No problem. For me, it's really a game of guess and check, then go back and tweak a bit. If you do come up with a formula, I'd like to see it. That would really make things simpler. BTW, you can use lua to directly state how much damage a round deals regardless of sharpness/firevelocity/etc, but I'm not skilled enough to know how to implement such a thing. Your best bet would be PMing one of the lua guys, I'm sure they'd be glad to help someone new.


Fri May 03, 2013 2:45 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Well the thing is, I'm not really new, new to the forums and all the new stuff since B24, yes. Otherwise I have made guns before. The problem is that Gotcha! is the one I learned everything from (well, UniTec is, not him directly) and he won't reply to my PM's. I heard Gotcha! was done modding so I fear he may have left the forum completely, therefore I can no longer get his help. :l But, to anything lua... yea, I'm new.


Fri May 03, 2013 2:51 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Here's an informative topic on how sharpness, mass, and velocity relate to terrain penetration. I imagine it functions the same way with MOs.

Anyways, there are plenty of people willing to help with modding on these forums, me included.


Fri May 03, 2013 3:59 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Thank you cricket, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who might be able to help me, but my first issue is how shy I am at anything. The other issue I have is I find it rude to just randomly PM someone who doesn't know me, asking him to help me with MY project. It's like going up to someone you have never seen before at school and asking them to do your homework. But if anyone is willing to help me I would really need Lua help on my few projects I have planned. xD (But lua won't come until after I get everything else done first.)


Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 am
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Data Realms Elite
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
I'm in the same position, but I know some mods with working scripts that I can recommend for scavenging.


Sat May 04, 2013 12:32 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
CaveCricket48 wrote:
Here's an informative topic on how sharpness, mass, and velocity relate to terrain penetration. I imagine it functions the same way with MOs.

The penetration seems pretty similar, yeah.

But if you want to damage an actor's health, CC's system for that is a lot less realistic and intuitive.
Actors lose a fixed amount of health per wound. A single MOPixel bullet will either bounce off and cause no damage, penetrate in and cause an EntryWound, (X amount of damage) or penetrate all the way through and cause both an EntryWound and an ExitWound. (X+Y damage)
If a limb is lost, this will cause a BreakWound. (Z damage) This can either happen from the limb being imparted with enough momentum, overcoming the limb's JointStrength and detaching it, or by the limb having equal or greater wounds on it than the limb's GibWoundLimit. A limb being lost also causes disabilities. Slower walking for one leg, no walking for both legs, inaccuracy and losing shield use for BGArm, losing other device use for FGArm, dying for the head.
The torso can also be gibbed, which is obviously instant death. This can happen from the torso having equal or greater wounds than the actor's GibWoundLimit, or from the torso being imparted with enough momentum to overcome the torso's GibImpulseLimit.
The GibImpulseLimit of a limb does absolutely nothing if the limb is still attached. If it's been detached, then it's pretty irrelevant to gameplay how much impulse will gib it; mostly just an aesthetic detail.
Heads' wounds have a fixed damage multiplier, 5x.

So if you want to represent one big, heavily damaging bullet, you'll probably actually want multiple, overlapping bullets to represent that, which will cause multiple, overlapping wounds. For instance, five weak bullets could do X+X+X+X+X damage. Two strong bullets could do (X+Y)+(X+Y) damage. A strong and a weak bullet overlapping could do X+(X+Y) damage.
You could also go for stupidly heavy bullets, and have a gun specifically for detaching limbs. This was how the Ronin Peacemaker was originally so awesome. Funny thing, if you have enough sharpness to penetrate all the way through a limb easily, you impart less momentum, sometimes avoiding a limb detachment, and doing less damage.

GlobalAccScalar AirResistance will affect the speed of bullets, which affects penetration, so for instance, if you want to do X+Y damage at short range, and just X damage at long range, that's doable.
The gun's operator's velocity as of firing also affects the bullet's velocity. This is why mauling the steel reinforcement of a bunker with a heavy digger is better than just standing there, shooting the heavy digger at it.
Gravity will also affect the bullets' speeds. This is why shooting a concrete sprayer at someone from far above can sometimes debilitate them an extra amount.

There's also bleeding, but that's also a fixed amount per wound, so you can chalk that up as a delayed part of X, Y, or Z damage.
Detaching or gibbing a limb will stop all the bleeding of the entry and exit wounds on that limb, though. So I suppose if someone set up the wounds right for it, amputation could be a viable gameplay mechanic.


Last edited by Azukki on Tue May 28, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 06, 2013 2:37 am
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
That is a wonderful explanation Azukki, thanks. I'll look into making Anti-Material Rifles delimbing actors and things like that. Guess realism with damage is just too hard to implement for a first mod, eh? ^^


Mon May 06, 2013 12:49 pm
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Realism? In CC? Good luck. :U
Also, little thing:
Azukki wrote:
GlobalAccScalar will affect the speed of bullets

Everything Azukki said is totally correct (and also very nicely formulated), though i suspect he/you meant AirResistance here rather than GlobalAccScalar, since the latter is... Well, a scalar of GlobalAcc, which is gravity. Setting it to 0.5 would mean that the object is only affected by half of the gravity, thus making it fall more slowly. AirResistance, on the other hand, is a measure of how much velocity the object loses after every frame (0.05 AirResistance means it loses 5% velocity per frame), and on top of that, there's also the very new variable called AirThreshold, which is essentially a lower limit for when air resistance applies. If you, for example, set AirThreshold to 60, then AirResistance will apply AS LONG AS the objects velocity exceeds 60.


Tue May 07, 2013 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
I believe AirResistance was fixed to decrease velocity based on the game's sim time (velocity decrease per second) rather than per frame.


Tue May 07, 2013 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
This must be some mystical developer version you have, my AirResistance doesn't behave like that. :U
More specifically, a particle launched at 100 velocity with 0.1 air resistance drops slowly to the ground after flying a few hundred pixels. Unless you mean that it's based on sim time instead of frames now, since slow-motion means more frames per real-time second. Would that be the case?


Tue May 07, 2013 3:22 pm
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
Shook wrote:
Unless you mean that it's based on sim time instead of frames now

CaveCricket48 wrote:
I believe AirResistance was fixed to decrease velocity based on the game's sim time (velocity decrease per second) rather than per frame.

Yes, per sim time. By velocity decrease per second, I mean an AirResistance of 0.1 would decrease velocity by 10% every sim time second, iirc.


Tue May 07, 2013 7:19 pm
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Data Realms Elite
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Post Re: Making Rounds hit harder
KaiserKuns wrote:
That is a wonderful explanation Azukki, thanks. I'll look into making Anti-Material Rifles delimbing actors and things like that. Guess realism with damage is just too hard to implement for a first mod, eh? ^^

YOu can have "realism" by imparting script damage [which amounts to \target.health = target.health - [whatever]\] based on several factors, but at the end of the day, it's never going to be an intuitive experience.


Thu May 09, 2013 4:02 pm
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